The Straight Chiropractic Objective

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The straight chiropractic  objective is the foundational principle we have chosen for our profession. The 33 principles are the basis or rationale for that objective.

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  1. Dr. Dave Suskin 05/02/2014, 2:38 pm:

    Always had difficulty with Principle 31
    That innate intelligence used the nervous system. I mean,
    It’s kind of assumed, but, philosophically, how do you know, how is it proved, says who? Jumping from philosophy to anatomy?? I don’t see the ‘a priori’ connection

    Dr. Dave

  2. Dr. Dave Suskin 05/02/2014, 2:40 pm:

    I should say, as a principled or wanna be principled chiropractor, help me with this one. I’d appreciate it tremendously

    Dr. Dave

  3. Dr. Dave Suskin 05/02/2014, 2:48 pm:

    Sorry once more >> principle 28 >> the forces of innate intelligence operate thru or over the nervous system in animal bodies..

    The more science delves into the anatomy and chemistry and physiology, yes the nervous is there, but it would seem to be more of a fight or flight type of thing, or perhaps other theories (science), embedding it into immune systems, but innate intelligence operating thru or over??? I’ve seen the phrase ‘the nervous system controls all cells’ It does? nerve to cell?? innate to cell, from thru the nervous system?? how is this a philosophical ‘self evident’ (a priori) event??? HELP!!!!

    • Joe Strauss 05/03/2014, 2:13 pm:

      Dr. Dave, first welcome to the blog. To answer your question: I think empirical evidence examples like decapitation, hanging, electrocution all indicate that the nerve system is essential to life. That doesn’t mean that the innate intelligence of the body uses the nerve system exclusively but it is an important tool of the ii. If someone can demonstrate another system/mechanism (beside VS) in which interference causes incoordination of action , a profession to address that interference should be begun. That would not detract from the validity and importance of what we do. Good question. I hope you will continue to ask probing questions and offer your insights. Isn’t every adaptive response a demonstration of the fight (against EIF) or flight (from them) mechanism? It seems to me that the immune system is another tool/mechanism like the insertable head that changes a flat head to a Phillips head screwdriver. But it (the immune system) is closely linked to the function of the nerve system.

  4. Steve 05/02/2014, 10:19 pm:

    The objective (LAFTCOVS) is derived from the principles although it is not within them, is that correct?

  5. Steve 05/02/2014, 10:21 pm:

    And THANX for the LEXICON tab, Joe (Joe’s niece)

    • Joe Strauss 05/03/2014, 11:34 am:

      Actually it’s my granddaughter, Steve. But you’re welcome. Now we just have to live with Claude wanting to add new words and phrases every day.

      • Steve 05/10/2014, 8:41 pm:

        Upon extended and considerable mental functionating over the concern you so vehemently express, I have divised several pertinent terms worthy of consideration for the Lexicon.(or at least the introduction to the Lexicon)
        1. Clautification, The act of clarification by pontification.
        2. Claudiation, The formal conclusion to a statement, Period. Enuf said.
        3. Claudified, Hybridized previously related terms, ex. e/matter.
        4. Claudism, phrase of reassurance, ex. Together without condemnation.
        5. Clautation, The citing of a Principle to substantiate a preceding statement.
        6. Claudarian. Fellow blogger expressing gratitude for clarification.

  6. David Suskin 05/03/2014, 12:48 pm:

    Hello All,
    I commented yesterday and it was not picked up by the ‘Reviewers’ so I’ll try again. It is a point within the 33 principles that has offered me some questioning, nagging at me for many years. Perhaps someone can offer me some logic. Principle 28 associates ii with the nervous system. I did some searching within this forum and did find reference to the nervous system, BJ’s reference to the origin of the mental impulse, afferent, efferent references, all coming down to the understanding that what we have here is a Cycle of Transmission, of communication, with the peripheral, and central nervous systems as vehicles to allow COORDINATION.

    Anyway. My difficulty is that we discuss the deductions as BJ (DD), presented them and Stevenson organizes them in 33 principles, and the leap from deductive logic to anatomical structure. How is principle 28 arrived at in the first place. Is it self evident? Why the spine? Why not the meridians? Why not Quantum field at a universal/innate atomic level? My point is I believe self evident and would greatly appreciate some direction on this. We use definitions of the nervous system that incorporate it’s functionality, but function is a product of discovery and science and investigation. What appears to be correct might indeed prove wrong. There has been so much reference to the nervous system interfacing directly with the tissue cell. Yes? No? But where? and in all cases? All cells? How? and is this even a discussion that lends itself to philosophy, more specifically to adjusting the spine to remove subluxation which interferes with the nervous system, and how does that interface with Innate Intelligence, philosophically??? 33 principles?? 28th to be more specific. How was it arrived at that the nervous system was the storehouse of the mental impulse???

    Please allow this to be posted
    Thank you

    Peace
    Dave Suskin

    Trane lives (yes I”m a coltrane enthusiast, guitarist, musician, jazz guy, music lover) and trying to come back into this field of chiropractic once more as a principled chiropractor

    • Joe Strauss 05/03/2014, 2:32 pm:

      Dave, I was out of town yesterday covering for my former associate (who now has the practice) who was speaking at Sherman’s Lyceum. I held off approving your comment until I was able to reply, otherwise Claude might “beat me to the punch” and I like to personally respond to firstimers. After the first or second approved comment (I forget which) all comments are automatically posted so you will not have a problem in the future. Sorry for the delay.

      • David Suskin 05/03/2014, 4:05 pm:

        Got ya,
        Thanx.
        Yes as per your reply (comment to my main point), yes I agree with the empirical observations. But I’ve thought about, the obvious viewing of the nervous system embedded into organ systems (embryological early onset occurrence of the nervous system (aka renaissance presentations, etc.) yet organ transplants (heart, kidney, liver), not integrating the original nerve supply and survival. maintains. Yes, this is perhaps an example of innate’s ability to adapt an organism, and perhaps these situations now warrant outside – in interventions constantly without the benefit of innate total body coordination of systems and tissues, but it would seem that the science or empirical information lends itself to further questioning
        What really is going on with a toggle recoil to a vertebral segment(s)? But putting that aside the philosophy we call chiropractic has this element with an explanation stating innate coordination of cells thru the nervous sytem??? it just seems like a mixing of apples and oranges. philosophy and anatomy >>

        Unless DD Palmer was a prophet or a insightful guesser, and one day the science will bear out this cell to cell communication, which is palmers implication and stevensons implication. What is the truth?

        Here’s my problem. I, Dave Suskin, left the Chiropractic profession because life, my life, and my analytical and spiritual nature, and how I understood Chiropractic, could not allow me to walk the walk, and talk the talk which is so necessary to so called be successful. I think many chiropractors have this or different types of issues, some of them are ego based, others are symptom treating based, mixer issues, searching for the magic bullet. etc. etc.

        I needed to come back to Chiropractic, which I could explain the reasons why at another time, so I’m re-looking at old issues that I must get past so I can basically tell my, we’ll call them practice members, or patients, ok >> bottom line, The nervous system controls everything. Health is normal. Subluxations interfere with nervous system function. When I give an adjustment, it removes subluxation so the body’s natural healing process can take place, and it does. Mind you I’m aware of the deeper concepts of innate intelligence and innate matter and the limitations of matter and the daily stresses (chemical, physical, mental) that recreate subluxation(s) and how this effects the outcome in patients.

        The chiropractic story is that The adjustment happened first (harvey lillard) and the explanations came 2nd.

        OK I think I’m getting lost here. Another bottom line is, once again
        we have the structuralists, the duralists, the boopists (bone out of place), the articular bed-ists(mechanoreceptors), whatever >> that’s why the expression ‘Chiropractic Works’ is used. Cause no one knows why. really no why

        So the philosophy is an attempt to use deductive principles to explain the unexplainable phenomenon called healing when a chiropractic adjustment is given, and how.

        I like the references in one of your threads that basically portrays all of the force, all of the intelligence in the universe that sustains creation, is within life. Maybe Palmer said it, Maybe I said it :), Matter a fact, the trees, the mountains, the stars, the elements, the forces of nature, beauty, consciousness, etc. are all within life. Thus the power that made the body, heals the body, and maybe it’s an energy that radiates thru life that penetrates the nervous system, that IS a mental impulse, a code, a commuincation. It’s not the force, it’s the message, the timing, the integration, the coordination, the expression of innate.

        It would be good philosophically if the 1st principle of intelligence in the universe, which is ‘a priori’ self evident, would lead to the tissue cell thru the nervous system (principle 28) with the same amplitude of self evidence, at least in my mind.

        Bruce Liptons take on the ADIO, from the point of view of the cell, the cell having innate intelligence that communicates from outside the cell, with reigning control being PERCEPTION, is interesting. That the universe was single cellular then multi, with the intelligence evolving to more and more cells, more and more fractals of the same processes (signs of life), thus the human being is really a living organism of cells communicating and thru functions that duplicate the fundamental life functions found in the cell, and now the earth is a living system (innate), of humans cooperatively working together. (The planat is subluxated) >> it just says look, communication and coordination is critical for life. The metaphors of life on earth illustrates this, so we can see the same example in the body, with the nervous system duplicating communication and coordination, so that’s why Chiropractic Works.

        Have I been Wagging the tail by it’s dog???

        Oh boy >>

        HOW DO I WALK THE WALK, TALK THE TALK AS A PRINCIPLED CHIROPRACTOR >> Delivering BJ’s utopia ???

        Or is it all ego, all the subconsious really at work. Or is it really just ALL ABOUT LOVE. Parker >> PTC (present time consciousness), fullfill the MTD (mission talent destiny in your patients, FCB – failth confidence and belief, BELIEF and that will show you the way. or does it just all boil down to CHARISMA!!!!!

  7. Claude Lessard 05/03/2014, 5:11 pm:

    I maintain that, LACVS (31) for a full expression (13,24,27) of the innate forces (29) of the innate intelligence of the body (23)… PERIOD (32)… is contained within the 33 principles. The chiropractic objective serves to maintain the integrity of The Principle of Coordination. –

    – In other words, interference with transmission of innate forces (13, 23, 24, 27,28,29,31) violates The Principle of Coordination (32). –

    – The AMAZING genius of the chiropractic objective is that it does NOT assume anything. It is purely based on the AUTHORITY of the 33 principles. At that level of understanding, there is no need for getting sick people well, prevention, maintenance, retracing, etc… Those concepts are absolutely unnecessary if it is you WHO choose to practice the chiropractic objective. The freedom to be enjoyed is limitless!!! 🙂

    • Dave Suskin 05/03/2014, 5:28 pm:

      You mention AUTHORITY! Who or what ordained this Authority. Is this scripture from universal intelligence? Isn’t deeming 33 principles as authoritated as a quintessential ASSUMTION?
      Yes. We apply the principles but as deductive principles don’t We review them to see if they hold up to scrutiny. To experiential self evidence?
      Am I missing something?

    • Claude Lessard 05/03/2014, 6:39 pm:

      David,

      When I posted my last post (after yours), I had not read your two posts. Joseph’s prior rights to COTB as the administrator. I find your search to be laudable. You present legitimate questions, many of which will be answered ONLY as you live those questions (pretty much the same as finding answers to choosing to be “a coltrane enthusiast, guitarist, musician, jazz guy, music lover”. It really is was a paradox to jump at the conclusion principle #28 back in the early 1900s. It took a tremendous amount of observation to formulate this fact that was corroborated years later. It was Candice Pert, Molecular Biologist, WHO, in 1983, chose to first “scientifically” bring forth the relationship between the nerve system and the immune system as being one and the same. Mind you that there are a multitude of universal forces being adapted every moment by the law of active organization in “living things” that do not have nerve systems and yet have immune systems. That being said, in “animal bodies” for maintaining the integrity of the Principle of Coordination (32), principle #28 is the medium that is used for specialized innate forces coded for COORDINATION of ACTIVITIES, not necessarily for maintaining the “animal body” alive. The innate forces necessary to a tissue cell for the purpose of keeping it alive are NOT specialized innate forces. The cells of “animal bodies” are be maintained in active organization (alive) with OR without coordination of activities. Specialized innate forces coded for COORDINATION of ACTIONS require specialized configuration of electron, protons and neutrons of e/matter to manifest COORDINATION of ACTIONS. Without principle #28, innate intelligence cannot transmit instructive information to ALL the parts of the body for coordination of actions (#32) without breaking a universal law. That’s WHY the function of innate intelligence is to adapt universal focus and E/MATTER for USE in the body, so that ALL parts of the body will have coordinated action for mutual benefit (#23). The Principle of Coordination (#32) is about fulfilling the offices and purposes or ALL the parts of the body. The majority of living bodies in 2014 live WITHOUT coordination of activities of ALL their parts. That’s WHY it is me WHO choose to serve the 33 chiropractic principles by practicing the chiropractic objective.

      – To maintain the “animal body” alive, innate intelligence maintains the e/matter of the body of a “living thing” in active organization whether or not the “living thing” has nerve system (pri.21). Therefore, the chiropractic objective for a LIVING animal body is: To have a full expression of the innate forces of its innate intelligence. The way OC practices the chiropractic objective is by LACVS. PERIOD! –

      – It’s good to have you back! Welcome back David Suskin. Humanity needs you in more ways than one. 🙂

  8. David Suskin 05/03/2014, 8:51 pm:

    Interesting…. Interesting…
    Without Coordination of Activities of all their Parts in 2014!
    That was another observation I have had that you alluded to. My mother, god bless her. She’s 92, i’ll say good health (knock on wood). No Chiropractor, definitely Subluxated. Has to be. So she must be manifesting incoordination. Hey she’s my mom. Mom’s can never win.

    But seriously, that would have to be the truth. Others, Chiropractors, Chiropractic patients. Drop dead at 45. Young? To young!
    What happened here. What’s going on. Innate Intelligence? Survival? Is it Karma? Is it genes? Is it Lifestyle (absolutely)? Is it LOM? Sure.

    But where does the IO meet the OI? Does it? Can it? Should it?

    My mom… She’s an eternal optimist. Polyana-ish. Growing up >> I’d have to say, I didn’t console me. Everything works out for the best, She’d say. And still does. HOW DO YOU KNOW, I’d think. ahhhhhhhhhhh grasshopper. I’ve gotten older… ahhhhhhh
    She’s right! and Bruce Lipton agrees >>> PERSPECTIVE. I think Chiropractic Philosophy perhap is for those who don’t have one, or need one. It’s is an empowering perspective. It puts you and me in the driver seat. ADIO.

    The answer is inside, comes from inside. The power, the grace is from inside, or at least it’s a personal empowerment from God, thru God, to Believe in something Big, the size of the universe, that resides within every cell, every creature. Notably every man and woman.

    Understanding vulnerability and how one deals with it is a big answer and of course is a big problem. Do feel and know about vulnerability, and inspite of it, be loving, caring, growing.
    Yes some get old and angry. Some have always been angry. They adapt, even with subluxation, even with incoordination, and they suffer and make others suffer. They may call that evil. Have I strayed to far?

    So. The chiropractic patient. Given the tools for living. The adjustment, to allow innate forces to operate optimally, and the empowering philosophy of chiropractic. Which offers hope, patience (every process takes time). Inside – Out >> The Dr within does the healing. (A change in perspective >> away from the medical outside – in >> disease is going to KILL you if our egos don’t take control of you and save you. Man controlling nature? Yes. That’s the attempt. Our cultures operate within this paradigm
    Consciously and subconsciously.

    The equation is certainly not a linear one. and Normalcy is completely individualistic.

    Forgiveness, Gratitude Non-Judgement >> Are they standards for all? It’s all about Love? I’ve been searching and searching, my whole life. When I read the 33 principles some 38 years ago, that’s what turned me on to Chiropractic. I never succeeded at chiropractic. In the business. I’ve succeeded as a person, as a father. Now I’m continuing my journey once more along the Chiropractic channel.

    I hope to be able to offer it to others, to give back the ball of healing to my patients, that has been taken away from them by the culture.
    Physician heal thyself. See, that’s a big one. Can I get out of the way of myself and forge ahead with the only thing that will allow success for me, and that is a purpose bigger than myself.
    TBC (to be continued)

    • Claude Lessard 05/04/2014, 1:32 pm:

      David,

      The answers to your question, stated in so many ways, is found within it. You are searching… In other words you are free to be WHO you choose to be. The assumption for principle 28 began with principle 1. Look at HOW Joseph used it in his examples above. He’s showing you HOW to have an ONGOING conversation with yourself and WHO you will choose to share it with. “Do what is right, not expedient and wash your mind of ALL compromise… the rest of it (might very well be) is Mickey Mouse”. –

      – To paraphrase what you posted, OI meets IO at the major premise through observation and inductive reasoning…. “universal intelligence is in all e/matter… Is assumed as an a-priori AUTHORITY. The law of organization is where it all begins for making sense of the universe. The major premise, as we call it, is NOT a chiropractic principle per say. It is a universal principle that chiropractic CHOOSES as it’s start point. It is principle 2 that clearly defines the assumption of the MP stating the “Chiropractic meaning of life” (existence). –

      – It is true that chiropractic science with its 33 principles is the foundational platform used by chiropractic philosophy to connect it with the chiropractic art and the chiropractic objective. The relationship between these facets of chiropractic is maintained through rational logic and deductive reasoning. Yes, David, the philosophy gives us a way to relate to unexplained phenomena through rational logic. It is a valid method of “PERCEPTION” for Lipton to use as well as everybody else. –

      – There is a meeting point for metaphysical and physical, and that happens at the MP. What is making your struggle difficult is “the nerve system being the store house of mental impulses”. If you read past threads of this blogs, you may realize that innate intelligence does
      not reside in the brain as it was assumed before, and that the innate brain, which is the storehouse of innate forces, is wherever innate intelligence is… assembling innate forces. These are two metaphysical concepts that may help you understand that the physical brain/ nerve system is a specially coded e/matter for TRANSMSSION which is USED by innate intelligence for COORDINATION of ACTION of ALL the parts of the body for mutual benefit. On the other hand, active organization is maintain at the cellular level by innate intelligence and maintained in existence at the atomic level by universal intelligence. –

      – Let us continue to embrace our individual and collective problems… for within them are contained the answers giving rise to other problems. Problems can truly be sources of blessings!

      • Dave Suskin 05/04/2014, 3:07 pm:

        First of all I want to thank you Claude for your contribution to this personal, of a sort, thread. I am reaching out. How do you, as a chiropractor, approach your patients. They always have a chief complaint as a means of contact or typically so. Of course some could be interested in your services for lets say more chiropractic philosophical accurate application of service reasons. But I’d gather the norm is from the outside into your office 🙂 (vs IO). The collective problem. Hmmmm. Problem answer more problems answers. Blessings. Hmmmm. Is this the catharsis of chiropractic philosophy? (Yes I realize that chiropratic IS a philosophy, but for discussion purposes).

        Patient says. I have this problem. What could be an example of a chiropractic principle application to what is transpiring in this interaction. And how does it end up in its perhaps adjusting/healing outcome principle wise. From your perspective and the patients perspective with let’s say a healing experience for the patient.

        This might be a overly comprehensive ask from me to you. So I do appreciate any response. At anytime. This interaction is adjusting me mentally :-).

        I think mixers came about perhaps because of lack of being principled 1st or patient came with problem. Adjustments were given. Time was allowed. Problem remained. Was it LOM? Does this require myofascial work. Physical therapy? Why physical therapy? Was the adjustment specific enough where innate could use it effectively.

        So to mix or not to mix. And WHY NOT.
        It just seems that empirically, innate is so perfect and chiropratic IS or has been an alternative approach, point of view for living, that this perfect philosophy being in an imperfect world posses a great problem for being able to Sell It. Own it.

        I’d like to be able to use the philosophy as my code (do I sound like Dexter. By the way if you never watched dexter on show time may I share in its delight by suggesting it to you for a joyful experience. My opinion of course).

        You’ve helped me to focus on COORDINATION. As being a major subluxation terrain vs driving the cell with life force concepts.

        The difference between control and coordination might in practical purposes be minimal. In that to coordinate some central intelligence must know what’s going on everywhere and delegating function hierarchyally. For the good of the whole or for the benefit of some problem/answer/problem/answer/blessing??? Silver lining?

        The mind. The glass half full. Half empty!! Life takes work and purpose and deisire and passion and perspective.

        Any suggestions where I need to start. Or how I need to proceed. To succeed in chiropractic. Finally.

  9. Dave 05/04/2014, 4:04 pm:

    Claude. You stated: In other words you are free to be WHO you choose to be. The assumption for principle 28 began with principle 1. Look at HOW Joseph used it in his examples above. He’s showing you HOW to have an ONGOING conversation with yourself and WHO you will choose to share it with.’

    Who I choose to be. Wouldn’t that be helpful for me to be able to choose myself. I know I am the watcher but to control the self. The projected identity. By conscious choice vs a reactive subconscious is a challenge. Show me the way.

    Explain joe showing me how to have a conversation with myself.

    Sorry for appearing so. Umm. Needy?

  10. Dave 05/04/2014, 5:24 pm:

    So I’m having a discussion with my wife about this forum. She says to me. Wouldn’t you think that since the whole world is basically subluxated, that the world would be a whole lot sicker? I’ve alluded to this in my past posts. Talking about my mom. No chiropractor. Definitely subluxated. But vital. Etc. others. They’re just the opposite. Disease etc. I think that people have adaptive resources. Kind of like health banks. Subluxation robs you of accessing the most out of those banks. Principle 33. So some people have more in reserves than others. Some. subluxation won’t effect them as much cause they possess better lifestyle. Better mental. So the adaptation adjustments afford you are not as needed as what others require.

    So to this observation. >> Wouldn’t you think that since the whole world is basically subluxated, that the world would be a whole lot sicker?
    What principles do you associate that with? What’s your assessment

    Dave

    • Claude Lessard 05/05/2014, 1:58 am:

      Dave,

      Due to the “personal” nature of the direction that this thread is moving, do you think we should ask Joseph, as the administrator of this blog, if it is appropriate to continue move in that direction or if we should find another venue to assist you in your inquiry (emails, phone texts, etc…)? –

      – Also, it would help you if you were to read (re-read?) all the past threads on this blog including what you wrote above, as well as read (re-read?) ALL of the Blue Books from Strauss. You will find many ways to live your questions as their answers. –

      • Dave 05/05/2014, 12:41 pm:

        No problem 🙂

        What would be the 1st Blue Book that you would suggest?

      • Joe Strauss 05/05/2014, 12:45 pm:

        Claude, Dave, I think this thread is beneficial to everyone who would read the blog. If now or in the future either or both of you think it would be better to keep it personal, that would be your decision. By the way in reading the final draft of today’s post (not yet published) I think it would be helpful to Dave’s wife. If it does not adequately answer her question or enable her or you to come up with the answer, ask again.

        • Dave 05/05/2014, 1:03 pm:

          Thank you Joe for that observation and focus into being helpful. So the question is once more:

          Wouldn’t you think that since the whole world is basically subluxated, that the world would be a whole lot sicker? I’ve alluded to this in my past posts. Talking about my mom. No chiropractor. Definitely subluxated. But vital. Etc. others. They’re just the opposite. Disease, Infirmed, etc.

          And I guess, if BJ’s Utopia was actualized what would be the outcome in your opinion? Me thinks that even with the 33 principles and adjustments, unless above atlas and the heart(love) is adjusted, cleared, resurrected, self actualized, whatever >> the mess would still be the same. OR HOW DOES LIVING A LIFE GUIDED BY THE 33 PRINCIPLES AFFECT LIVING ONES LIFE, and is that the purpose of the philosophical chiropractic, the why of chiropractic?

          and how do the 33 principles answer this question

          • Claude 05/05/2014, 3:43 pm:

            Dave,

            The first Blue Book to read is Chiropractic Philosophy. You can purchase all the Blue Books online. Click on the icon above and you’re set. –

            – You asked: “HOW DOES LIVING A LIFE GUIDED BY THE 33 PRINCIPLES AFFECT LIVING ONES LIFE”? –

            – The chiropractic objective is to locate, analyze and facilitate the correction of vertebral subluxations for a full expression of the innate forces of the innate intelligence of the body. PERIOD. When is is you WHO choose to practice the chiropractic objective you participate in maintaining the integrity of the Principle of Coordination for that person. It is not utopia. It is deduced from the authority of the 33 principles. –

            – Your wife was asking: “Wouldn’t you think that since the whole world is basically subluxated, that the world would be a whole lot sicker?” –

            – Understanding that VS is in constant in flux, due to cellular replacement at the rate of 500,000,000/day, and that innate intelligence is constantly adapting universal forces and e/matter for coordination of activities of ALL the parts of the body, HOW would we know WHAT is going on in an individual like your mom? Chiropractic is NOT about getting sick people well. Therefore, to wonder about the world being sicker, implies VS gets people sick and that the correction of VS gets people well. The chiropractic principles are NOT about that at all, even though, many chiropractors, use them for that purpose. The chiropractic principles are based on rational logic of deductive reasoning which points to the possibility for the maintaining of the integrity of the Principle of Coordination within living animal bodies. Therefore, regardless of genetics, vitality, etc…, one’s life is constantly transformed, with or without VS. Based on the authority of the 33 principles, human beings WHO choose to use their educated intelligence to maintain the integrity of the Principle of Coordination are simply exercising their rights to do so. –

  11. Dave 05/05/2014, 4:38 pm:

    Claude,
    I get it. VS impacts the coordination of mental impulses which violates the mission of ii. That’s it.

    Will it impact health? Maybe? Now we have to define health, which has been done many many times.

    So you’re telling me that the founding father and the developer did not have in mind sick care, or well care, only ii care!

    What motivates people to do anything, to pay for anything?
    It’s either pain or pleasure.

    Where is the pain or pleasure of the prospective practice member as it applies to their limited understanding the essence of chiropractic. It would seem to be a hard pill to swallow for the public to motivate the public.

    Chiropractic does get results within the realm of ‘the body is self healing’ care. It all seems like a giant quagmire. The science supports the effect of VS on health. The concept of ii maintaining active organization of living matter and thus the loss of innate function would imply some loss of optimal health, or healing.

    It’s really difficult to sit on that ii fence only without falling over to one side. Would seem impossible.

    The philosophy brings me to a state of saying, good I wish their was another way to say to someone. The healing comes from within you. You’re the doctor, I help your body to help itself, let’s get started, but all of this has nothing to do with whether you will get better or not, symptomless or not. You’re not here for that reason and I’m not treating you for that reason. I am at a loss.

    And the interesting thing is, that sick people do get well many times, with chiropractic adjustments but in effect you’re saying… WHO CARES. It’s just an incidental by-product.

    Hard for me to get motivated by that one, to be able to scream to the people, come here, come here, after they’ve asked me. Doc, can you help me?

    • Claude 05/05/2014, 4:59 pm:

      WHY do you play jazz?

      • Dave 05/06/2014, 12:31 pm:

        Q:WHY does the artist perform her art? In other words, WHY do you play jazz?

        A:It allows me to create beauty, to express myself inorder to feel. Jazz specifically because improvisationally it allows me to get in a zone where I’m not thinking, just being and it’s all to my pleasure or feels so good. The interaction with other people in an expressive media is also perhaps a way of creating loving feelings, dark feelings with others. Also there is an intellectual nature of putting together abstractions that connect to each other, hooking moments to other moments, telling a story, maybe my story, or maybe your story, or maybe and inspiration that is a human story.

        I was wondering. Does II, or a perfect expression of II guide Educated Intelligence. Is that a deduction from the principles?
        Where does consciousness come into the picture and how II guides that and Free Will?

        • Claude 05/06/2014, 1:33 pm:

          Dave,

          First of all, innate intelligence is the law of active organization (pri.20&21). This law has a function (pri.23). Educated intelligence is a product of e/matter and is the CAPABILITY of the educated brain to function. The educated brain is an organ subject to interference of transmission of innate forces (pri.29) which violates the Principle of Coordination (pri.32). Therefore, we conclude that VS interferes with the function of the educated brain which further limits its CAPABILITY (pri.31&24). This is based on the AUTHORITY of the 33 principles. Is that not reason enough to practice the chiropractic objective? That is such a MISSION worthy for WHO to choose to BE using educated intelligence in order to maintain the integrity of the Principle of Coordination! WAKE UP DAVID SUSKIN!!! WHEN? RIGHT NOW!!! WAKE UP DAVID SUSKIN!!! You’ve got BIG work to do RIGHT NOW!!! “Seize this very minute! Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Only engage, and then the (your) mind (which is the activity of the innate brain OR educated brain — in this case it is the educated brain) grows heated. Begin it, and then the (your) work will be completed.”

          • Claude 05/06/2014, 1:37 pm:

            In other words to paraphrase someone significant to world: Create beauty. Express WHO you choose to BE in order to feel. Improvize. Get in the zone. No thinking… Just BE!!!

          • Joe Strauss 05/06/2014, 3:17 pm:

            Claude, you wrote, “Express(ing) WHO you choose to BE in order to feel…No thinking… Just BE!!!” Isn’t “choosing” predicated upon first thinking? Any decision first necessitates thinking. This blog is meant to enable people to think (deductively) based upon an objective and principles supporting that objective and then hopefully “BE” (and act) consistent with that thought. Any 2 year old can sit and play a musical instrument without thought. It’s not a thing of beauty! Cute maybe, but not beautiful. It can hardly be called “improvisation”. That takes years of prior thought and practice and even present thought/memory, like hitting a 95mph fastball. You more than anyone understand this concept. That’s why you ask questions, hoping that the reader will “reflexly” answer philosophically correct from prior inculcated correct thought. (although IMO sometimes you ask questions of people who have yet to have the philosophy inculcated but that’s your style and it seems to work for you.)

          • Dave 05/06/2014, 2:21 pm:

            I will study this! Thank you for the Wake Up CALL! Was that your ii to my innate matter to my senses and will to remove interference above atlas? It’s part of a mission, for me, for you, and I say Thank You, and will continue to do so

          • Dave 05/06/2014, 4:03 pm:

            I’d like to respond. and I’m aware of my, rambling nature (sorry) >> maybe food for thought or discussion >>

            Joe, Claude,
            Choosing to be, thinking then choosing to be is like saying, choosing to choose.
            You’re always being, it’s a matter of being aware of being, not thinking, but awareness. Different thing. Awareness is experiential. It is a state of no thought. You can choose (think), to place yourself in a situation where awareness might come (meditation), or doing things, thinking of things, while in the process, letting go and awareness will be in the background, a sense, no words. Just experience. That is the BE in Being or at least the awareness of as much of the be that you consciously can be aware of at the time.

            The practicing of a musical instrument, the practicing of thinking deductively is an exercise that can become a subconscious behavior. The being in consistency with that process is then more of a letting go. Thinking is a process, an innate process. The control point of to think or not to think, that ability to turn it on or off, that WILL, that FREE WILL to step up to the plate and hit the 95mph fastball. There is no thought, there is just intuitive, coordinated action, and the job is done or not done. Thought might precede experience, but experience and being taps into a process that combines ii and educated, but more of a subconscious educated, a trained educated, tempered by the NOW of being senses, coordination, adaptation.

            hmmmm
            The fusing of The Will and Innate, Consciousness and Innate. I remember reading in Stephenson his interpretation of consciousness, that it was the ego. I don’t think it is the ego or at least it made no sense to jump to that conclusion.
            but for now, Being, or awareness of being, or utilizing being as a 1st step of reacting is more of a fusion of ii and trained educated and a letting go to PTC (present time consciousness). NO TIME, just the reality that Time does not really exist. Only the present exists. Time is an analysis of the passage of Nows, that forms the ego and creates illusion that it really exists at all.

          • Joe Strauss 05/07/2014, 1:16 am:

            Dave “choosing to be” or even “choosing to choose” first require thought. Deciding to play “rock, paper, scissors” require first a thought as does “eenie, meeny miney, moe”. The Cartesian imperative states “I think, therefore I am ( an aware being ). Awareness is characterized by thinking. Actually no thought is a state of no awareness. It is not consciousness but unconsciousness.
            Playing a musical instrument or thinking deductively is never subconscious. It is always conscious, a use of the educated brain. You cannot play a musical instrument while asleep or in a coma. Your innate cannot play a musical instrument without the awareness of your educated brain. “Being in the zone” is not divorced from thought but concentrating your thinking so hard on the fastball or the PM lying on the table that everything else is blocked out of your educated brain.
            Stephenson said that awareness was activity in the educated brain. IMO, that is the only conclusion one can come to in understanding our chiropractic philosophy. Next time just before going into PTC check you watch and after leaving it, check it again. Time flies when I’m reading and replying to your comments but it doesn’t cease to exist. A little more chiropractic philosophy and a little less New Age philosophy may give you a different perspective. Have a great night and a great day tomorrow.

    • Dave 05/05/2014, 6:02 pm:

      Hi Claude,
      I was just looking at Dr. Joe Strauss’s pamphlet, ’13 Reasons to Get Your Spine Adjusted on a Regular Basis brochure’, online >> It would seem that by your argument (above), these chiropractic selling points, if you will, are fallacious our at least outside of the scope of chiropractic philosophy. Being that this arena is a chiropractic philosophy forum, it would seem incongruent that these communication devices would appear, here, next to the chiropractic philosophy books ecommerce section.

      Back to the question. The world has billions of subluxated homosapiens. With those effects as described in that pamphlet, one would think that the world would be alot more incoordinated, shall I say, chemically imbalanced, non-optimalized geniuses, frustrated top performers and athletes and OK, I’ll stop. You must get my point.

      I presented Chiropractic in an earlier thread within the realm of ii working within the available resources each and every individual has. Some have more, some have less. Some have it in different areas. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. If you happen to be unlucky enough to have VS and a weakness, you’ve got bigger problems then the other guy who has VS that incoordinates a strength. If for example everyone had VS that operated into their weaknesses (lifestyle choices, LOM, mental profile, genetics, perception and social distortions >> THE WORLD WOULD NEVER HAVE SURVIVED.

      So Principle 33 has much to do with available biological, spiritual, chemical, metaphysical, etc. resources and how innate can distribute them to maximize the potential of the individual(s) interacting with other individuals interacting with other families, cultures and planetary coordinations, all within a universal intelligent direction.

      • Claude 05/05/2014, 7:28 pm:

        Dave,

        You wrote: “tTHE WORLD WOULD HAVE NEVER. SURVIVED”. Are you not underestimating the law of active organization and it’s function?

        • David Suskin 05/05/2014, 10:10 pm:

          Maybe, maybe. I guess I just need to put Chiropractic in there somehow, so I’m needed, You’re needed to make a world that exists, even better. A mission! It’s the only thing that will motivate to the end.

          • Claude Lessard 05/06/2014, 11:26 am:

            Dave,

            WHY does the artist perform her art? In other words, WHY do you play jazz?

          • David Suskin 05/07/2014, 11:20 am:

            Wake Up, It’s Tomorrow!
            Hi Joe,
            I was going to answer your comment(s), point by point, as a do disagree on many of your points, and even examples, and perhaps I will do so a little later and if I think it will help to improve an understanding or basically have a positive affect, on both of us, don’t know. BUT

            The ADIO concept is uniquely chiropractic, am I correct? To not offer, or seek out solutions to personal and worldly problems, as there are so many of (on the world side that is), and to not be able to apply that concept, that there is an ii for everyone, every life, that wants
            EASE, or functions to create EASE.

            Words like forgiveness, ego, gratitude, love, are within the lexicon of EASE.

            This term EASE enters into the mental realm, the social realm, the human interaction realm.

            How many chiropractic offices promote this EASE attitude and why?
            I’ll tell you why. Because the Mind and the Heart, need ADIO concepts to approach, to remove interference ABOVE ATLAS, and in the HEART.

            So, concepts like consciousness, intent, free will, self actualization, brotherly love, i surmise, must enter into the chiro philosophy, the 33 principles, somewhere. The Spinal Adjustment is the only application of removal of interference or distortion of ii intent, or purpose? I can’t imagine that.

            Consciousness, and Feelings and Awareness and Perspective do enter the metaphysical arena and i deduct that they are properties or attributes of ii, of INTELLIGENCE of ui. Pro growth expansion, the evolving of matter and life into more and more complexity with the essence of Consciousness and Love, which there in the beginning and expose themselves most strongly in this higher form, called man, Yet consciousness and love show up in all life. You can see it in the behaviors of attraction and resistance in all life forms.

            Anyway, I wasn’t going to begin to answer your response, and in some ways my point of view has touched upon it. I can perhaps go there, point by point a bit later. But for now

            Chiropractic, being ADIO has to philosophically empart a message of peace and an ADIO approach includes the adjustments or removal of interference to ii ABOVE atlas, and I’ll say, from the HEART.

            PTC, Meditation as adio forces > The whole realm of psychology and human behavior requires an ADIO approach.

            Maybe subluxation as defined to the spine needs to be the removal of interference to ii, and that can happen physically in the spine, and spiritually or some other word perhaps, in the mind, in the intention that one human has to another. Something, Something

            Thank you for your input

          • Joe Strauss 05/07/2014, 4:32 pm:

            Dave, you wrote “The ADIO concept is uniquely chiropractic, am I correct?” No, not in my opinion. Chiropractic can be practiced from an ADIO viewpoint ( OSC) or from an outside-in (oi) perspective (therapeutic). Many other things beside chiropractic can be practiced from an ADIO or from an OI viewpoint, like nutrition, exercise and other health issue. Generally, eating for health is ADIO, eating to treat, cure, prevent disease is outside-in. Nutrition, no matter how it’s practiced (ADIO or OI) is not part of the objective or practice of OSC, which is confined to the LACVS. This whole discussion is part of my latest Blue Book Conflict of Philosophy. In which I cover many health issues that have an ADIO viewpoint and an outside-in one, and many issues which have nothing to do with health. Objective Chiropractic offers the solution to one world problem-VS. Ones world & life viewpoint offers the solutions to ALL of the world’s problems. With regard to VS, the ADIO W&L viewpoint (LACVS) is the best IMO. For others ADIO is usually the best (also IMO), but sometimes OI is needed, like the treatment of a disease which has exceeded limitations of matter. I’ve barely begun to respond to your entire comment but I think I’ve given you enough to chew on for now, beside I have to go chew on a salad (lunch).

          • Joe Strauss 05/07/2014, 4:41 pm:

            Claude, you wrote, “Are “clinical findings” a result of observation of the existence electrons, protons and neutrons of e/matter through the law of organization or the configuration and velocity of the electrons, protons and neutrons giving rise to the multifaceted structures of e/matter through the law of active organization?” My answer: I think it depends on whether those “clinical findings” are a manifestation of living matter (matter that is adapting-the latter) or matter that is not adapting (dead-the former).

      • Joe Strauss 05/05/2014, 8:22 pm:

        Dave, I sure would not want to promote/sell anything that is “fallacious”. Many chiropractor use those pamphlets and you are the first who has said that they are incongruent. Please explain how they are inconsistent with the philosophy.
        When you say that “If you happen to be unlucky enough to have VS and a weakness, you’ve got bigger problems then the other guy who has VS that incoordinates a strength. If for example everyone had VS that operated into their weaknesses (lifestyle choices, LOM, mental profile, genetics, perception and social distortions >> THE WORLD WOULD NEVER HAVE SURVIVED”. You are looking at chiropractic as did some of the Founders as a cause of disease. OSC does not work with the material resources. That is a limitation of matter. The only LofM that the objeciv3 chiropractor deal with is the limitation caused by nerve interference as a result of Lof M in adapting to EIFs. There may be “bigger problems” than VS but that is the only one we address regardless. We do not address lifestyle choices except the choice to get your spine checked. While it is true that ii works with available resources, we do not address those resources except to make sure that the ii uses all that are available as well as it can. (I believe that is the intended thrust of the pamphlet in question).
        The world has survived because the One who created the world designed it to survive. I think you mean that no one born into this world has survived and you are correct. But the fact that no one in this world has ever survived means that in part, VS appears to have “operated into their weaknesses.”

        • David Suskin 05/05/2014, 10:08 pm:

          hmmmm hmmmm, let’s see let’s see….
          First of all… No of course your materials are not fallacious. They just point to possible effects of getting your subluxations LACVS’d. I was rebutting the statement that Claude had made >>

          Chiropractic is NOT about getting sick people well. Therefore, to wonder about the world being sicker, implies VS gets people sick and that the correction of VS gets people well. The chiropractic principles are NOT about that at all, even though, many chiropractors, use them for that purpose. The chiropractic principles are based on rational logic of deductive reasoning which points to the possibility for the maintaining of the integrity of the Principle of Coordination within living animal bodies.

          I think that the public, our PM’s are Results oriented let’s say only Removal of subluxation to allow ii to do it’s job without interference.

          The pamphlets read great. I’m trying to arrive at what I believe would be a point of inspiration to my practicing Chiropractic. That it would from my perspective and in depth (finally), understanding of it’s breath and scope, inspire me to practice it, succeed in it, deliver it to many many people. I need to understand why The Big Idea was, is Big and why PM’s should know it because I will tell it and demonstrate it.

          I think the science of chiropractic, and clinical studies do bear out Chiropractic’s success in increasing healing dynamics. My take was that as large as Universal Intelligence is, Innate is the same but applied to life. And that Chiropractic viewed Health as the default, norm. That life and healthy life came from ADIO. That this message empowers people to believe, to experience, to perceive a totally different picture than what they’ve been taught and that society continues to teach. (DAOI). Chiropractic has a very positive message. Psychologically it, I believe helps the healing process. It’s a positive perception. This positive perceptions impacts ones health. Scientifically they impact

          Yes I know I’m getting away from the pure philosophical discussion, so forgive me for doing that.

          What changed from our Founding Fathers, philosophically. The science illustrating factual inconsistancies? Where was the deductive error, if there was one?

          The pamphlets, many pamphlets, through the years help to communicate a chiropractic message that helps people to apply where chiropractic might be helpful to their lives.

          I thought, looking at Dejarnette, Palmer, Fuhr, Gonstead, Goodheart, on and on, these Guys, perhaps YOU, are dedicated chiropractors, giving adjustments to many many people. HELPING, SAVING PEOPLE. Revealing to people the powers of life. The healing powers of life ADIO.

          The thing for me is that, life experiences and paralysis of analysis, has gotten in my way. The pinched nerve which was sold to the public, is not or might not be the only way nerves are interfered with. All of this might be an excuse for me to have failed,

          Look I know I’m rambling. Maybe you are sensing something I’m saying between the lines. I got out of Chiropractic. Many Chiropractors left chiropractic.

          Now It’s time for me to come back, with the reason I was attracted to it. THE PHILOSOPHY! But the philosophy has to inspire me and allow the practicality of practicing to be on the same page. Like I said, Walking the Walk, Talking The Talk!!! It’s the only way it can be done. No other way.

          So when we say No Chiropractic isn’t this isn’t that, It’s this >> Coordination > Principle 1,2 and 32,33 >> That’s it. But is that enough. Is that enough. RESULTS MATTER. i need to understand more so I GET THE BIG IDEA, which cannot be words on a page, but an actual experience to deliver to the world!

        • Dave 05/07/2014, 6:37 pm:

          Joe,
          Yes I did say Chiro >> ADIO only.
          Well, you’re certainly giving the freedom to practice or administer based on intent (I understand the words like practice or administer >> perhaps are what you called >>anthropopathisms, am I correct? See I’m reading :). Well I believe I understand things a bit more, now that I’m reviewing and venturing forward.

          So we have IO (up to LOM) and OI for anything that exceeds LOM. Of course knowing what that LOM is, is very, very difficult to assess given the element of allowing enough time (principle6), the administration of the most precise and timely adj (universal force that ii is able to use), and perhaps the usage of other ADIO contributions (eg. nutrition, exercise, whatever), which can allow healing.

          I get this, though, II being the focus, the blessing, chiro’s uniqueness, and niche. Not sickness, or health, but II + 100% force + 100% matter. Adjustments effect the innate force thru the administering of a universal force. II for maximum life potential.

          I would assume you give the permission to Chiropractors to practice what they want, but perhaps you might not agree that it is Chiropractic. It might be spinal manipulation to remove fixation, mobilization, disc distraction for disc disease and protrusion, this for that condition, etc. I am a bit surprised that you stated
          “Chiropractic can be practiced from an ADIO viewpoint ( OSC) or from an outside-in (oi) perspective (therapeutic). ” and still
          allowing the word Chiropractic to be associated with it vs Manual Medicine, or some other medical oi administration. Unless you were referring to Chiropractic removal of subluxation (OSC) but from a symtom, condition standpoint >> back to oi. Interesting, the healing still takes place io, put the intent and perspective of the doc and the patient are oi, which in the end might influence the Results.

          See that’s where I keep pressing forward on this issue. That the understanding and embracing of the philosophy, of chiropractic is part of the PERSPECTIVE, that is a healing perspective. It engages the patient to take responsibility for their lives. It puts the healing in the right venue, in the right vessel if you will.

          You seem to knock, or throw sarcasms I’ll say, at New Age, which is fine of course, but think about this. Why did Chiropractic as defined have a philosophy, science, and art? Yes the philosophy as stated was the Why in chiropractic but it also was the Perception, the point of view, the MIND and motivator for the doc and the PM. That has alot of impact on life. It is part of the MIND element in MIND/BODY, which we know scientifically is part of the equation of ii removal, personal growth, ii intent, whatever that is.

          I just think that the Philosophy needs to be applied to MIND metaphysical a bit more. At that time of the century, vitalists were looking at the mind, consciousness and putting out theories of life and existence based on those concepts, theories. The IAM theories, etc.

          I think that Stephenson does a fairly weak job of explaining consciousness, and the subconsious and the ego, within the context of chiropractic principles, calling dreams a sickness of sorts (from what I remember right now). I think it would do chiropractic and chiropractors a great service by approaching this subject of the mind and consciousness through philosophical channels (principles).

          Let me say this. The subconscious mind is effecting all of us, in terms of Why we need a philosophy at all or Chiropractic, or Medicine, or IO(child-parent >> you are you own best parent) or OI (parent-child >> outside father/mother figure helping child).

          Anyway for another time, and perhaps I’ll discover more that will settle me to just have LACVS, and that’s plenty, awesome plenty!! Enough that if every patient got it, my life and their lives would be at a whole other positive level.

          Enjoy your salad 🙂

          So basically it’s all about II and the

          • Joe Strauss 05/08/2014, 3:18 pm:

            Dave, I think Stephenson does an adequate job of explaining mind from a chiropractic philosophical standpoint. Apparently it is not adequate from the New Age perspective. That’s okay but just as his explanation of soul would be inadequate for the theologian, it is because soul (as Stephenson/BJ describe it) and mind and consciousness as they(RWS/BJ) describe them are inadequate in New Age theology (for want of a better term). When RWS and more so BJ, get into theology, eg. soul or into medicine eg. “getting sick people well”, I think they often err. That’s why OSC began, to refine the chiropractic philosophy and understanding to only that which is consistent with the chiropractic principles and objective. The same may be true when they use terms that have been appropriated by New Age philosophy (a more palatable term?).

          • Claude Lessard 05/08/2014, 11:10 pm:

            Dave,

            Chiropractic is SEPARATE and DISTINCT from EVERYTHING ELSE and is INCLUSIVE of EVERYONE. The AUTHORITY of chiropractic IS the 33 principles which gives rise to the chiropractic objective which is: The LACVS for a full expression of the innate forces of the innate intelligence of the body. PERIOD. –

            – You posted: ‘I just think that the Philosophy needs to be applied to MIND metaphysical a bit more.” –

            – The word “mind” in chiropractic is about the activity occurring in the innate brain or educated brain. You are talking about the educated brain when you wrote: “… the MIND and motivator for the doc and the PM.” Educated brain is the seat of educated mind. It is merely an organ, like the liver or spleen and is subject to incoordination of action due to interference with transmission of innate forces. To have a coordinated educated brain is equal to having a coordinated liver or spleen, no more, no less. ALL organs have limitation of e/matter. What is important, is to maintain the Principle of Coordination so that ALL parts of the body (including the educated brain) will have coordinated action for mutual benefit. It is we, WHO choose to do that by practicing the chiropractic objective. –

            – WHEN it is chiropractors WHO choose to practice the chiropractic objective, they participate in maintaining the integrity of the Principle of Coordination. To do so, that is more than what any other human profession had done or can ever do to transform the lives of people and of life itself. That is WHY it is me WHO choose to practice the chiropractic objective. –

            – Also, please note that none of the 33 principles mention anything about healing, health, educated brain, educated intelligence, educated mind. HOW could they? I’ve had cats all my life and have been checking their spines every week. WHAT on earth would be the “the MIND and motivator for the doc and the cat”? Do you see, the amazing genius of the authority of the 33 chiropractic principles? We are dealing with LAWS and principles (not personalities) that applies to e/matter. And as far as the chiropractic objective is concerned, it applies to living vertebrates. 😉

          • Dave Suskin 05/09/2014, 2:12 pm:

            Claude,
            Really well constructed reply. You’ve certainly thought about much of these constructs that you present.
            We’re all here discussing chiropractic philosophy. We would only be doing that if we felt it was important or necessary, for some reason. Could be an ‘ego’ reason or an ‘I want to understand what I’m really doing as a chiropractor and how can I present accurately to PM or to educate reason, etc. There are many reasons that motivate us to do the things we do.

            My experience is that, almost like someone reading their bible daily, or a book of affirmations, the philosophy exists, at least for me, to orient myself to WHAT I’M REALLY OFFERING TO A PM, and do I get really really motivated about it, get them motivated about it, create a joy de vive, or just accept it, deliver it, the adjustment that is, and then be on my way and let the PM be on their way.

            This need, ah the word need, is it from ii, or from interference of ii?? I don’t know, but I wake up in the morn, a bit disoriented, disconnected from my heart, my optimisms, my motivations, my reason d’etre. It takes reading, looking at the philosophy, looking at the trees, breathing the air, just waking up. Kind of a pumping myself up on CHIROPRACTIC. The adjustment can be so, simple, and to not be looking for outcome in the way of symptom removal, or clinical finding removal, but just knowing philosophically what’s going on. Sometime that can get a little thin, and sometimes it can be LARGE, VERY LARGE perspective wise

            This is why, for me perhaps, Consciousness, the fact that we are aware of being aware, this realm that we are organisms, from the mud, with intelligence, ii, well, it’s kind of the Universe looking at itself through our own, mans eyes. (Grateful Dead – Eyes of the World :),

            Anyway Claude, yes the 33 Principles, and Coordination and perhaps a dash of in some cases, Life Energy, being unblocked with a Spinal Adjustment, yes it’s something large to Ponder. But sometimes, no I’d say almost everyday I have to wipe the sleep out of my eyes, and somehow get there, thru effort. Maybe this is my ii + time + adaptation = growth and that is what is taking place in me. Constant personal growth

            So I’d say even though, you don’t incorporate the above atlas adjustment, perhaps innate brain, and how the 33 principles manage incorporate into that, in terms of how to remove interference there, if it exists at all, by some other method than Spinal Adjustment. Is that Chiropractic???

            Jim Parker >> PTC, LLL, FCB, MTD, Innate to Innate >> these are success constructs, mental and interaction(heart) constructs to promote healing, etc. in patients, in oneself, that were greatly associated with Chiropractic, but you’re saying in your explanations of the 33 principles, that that really has nothing to do with Chiropractic specifically. Only LACVS, Period.

  12. Steve 05/05/2014, 9:28 pm:

    Hello Dave and Mrs. Dave,
    How can you not see that the world we live in is a very “sick” place? Indeed it is an imbalanced, non-optimized, frustrated, highly stressful existence. Mothers kill their babies, brother kills brother, industry poisons the populous and the environment. Wars are waged for profit. A government designed to help us co-exist is now turning us into slaves. Typical healthcare is nothing more than disease management, for profit.
    With what you know chiropractic to be, do you ever ask yourself, what if Hitler had been adjusted? What if everyone on capital hill got their spines checked regularly? How might things be different if all fortune 500 companies had in house chiropracTORs?
    On a more personal note, are you all you can be? How often do you get checked? I look back on my lineage and environment and am thankful every day for ADIO & Chiropractic.
    As for chiropractic, much was developed by observation, much like Karate and Acupuncture. DD did not invent chiropracTIC, he recognized the principle. BJ did not create the philosophy, he witnessed the rules in action. Did you know the safety-pin cycle was developed before the afferent nerve system was identified? You question the jump from philosophical to physical (anatomical), but what is one without the other? Chiropractic takes something practical like nerve tracing and adjustments for “getting the sick well” and opens up a whole world view. Chiropractic addresses the incoordination in this discoordinate world. Just as one adjustment may affect one or millions of nerve fibers it may also affect one or millions of lives.
    Keep looking, learning, listening, and remember Principle # 6, There is no process that does not require time.

    • David Suskin 05/05/2014, 10:18 pm:

      Thank you Steve, thank you… Yes I agree. But you see, I never had that experience, to see Chiropractic doing that. Alot of what you say, is what I hoped for, but it didn’t pan out that way, or possibly I was too, way way way too self critical, and didn’t put the healing concept on the patient. The patient heals from their inborn forces, not from my doing something. My doing something, the adj, is but a small part of the what and why of Chiropractic. but thank you…. has this been your experience, in chiropractic. To see a sick world truely being affected positively thru the administration of the adjustment on an ii creature, man/woman.

      That’s why I’m hear, now >> to look, to learn, and too listen….. I’m listening. Continue…

      and again, Thank You for stepping out, to me

  13. Steve 05/06/2014, 1:57 pm:

    BJ said, there are so many recognizable steps between the subluxation and a clinical manifestation of pathology that we don’t need to wait for the diagnosis to adjust. The subluxation alone is all that is necessary to warrant an adjustment.
    IMO, chiropractic has only one purpose, to restore the connection between intelligence and matter. By doing so we HOPE to restore ease. We basically offer Hope to the body and HOPE to the mind and HOPE to society and HOPE to the world.
    I know that every adjustment given helps to align man, woman, child and beast with their true purpose, whatever that may be.
    I did not have the opportunity to adjust the last Hitler, but you or I may be adjusting the next one. AH HOPE..
    “I want to contribute to this plethora of individual voices with the hope that mine will somehow have a positive effect on the whole.”( Do not think this is a Coltrane quote, but did find it on his site)

    • Dave 05/06/2014, 2:23 pm:

      Yes. ‘I want to be a force for good’ is what he said
      Trane Lives

  14. Claude Lessard 05/07/2014, 5:21 pm:

    Joseph,

    Please give me an example of “clinical findings” that deal with dead e/matter that was once living e/matter (i.e. not like a rock that was never living and never will be alive) that is not adapted by the innate intelligence of the cell or molecule for that matter?

    • Claude Lessard 05/07/2014, 6:06 pm:

      … in other words, an example of dead organic matter that is not being adapted by the law of active organization at the cellular level.

      • Joe Strauss 05/08/2014, 3:23 pm:

        Claude, I think infection would qualify, although the “clinical findings” may include both matter that is adapting and matter that can no longer adapt.

  15. Claude 05/08/2014, 1:26 pm:

    Joseph,

    I maintain that principle #5 is ALWAYS perfect and can NEVER be violated due to the law of conservation of e/matter. That’s WHY principle #5 is called “The Perfection of the Triune”. The Perfection of the Triune has to do with the EXISTENCE of ALL e/matter.

    • Joe Strauss 05/08/2014, 2:24 pm:

      While that is true, the “Triune of Life and the “perfection of the triune” due to Reggie’s thesis by that name causes most people to not even consider the issue of “universal life” or that Principle #5 is addressing universal matter and its other two components, universal intelligence and universal forces. Although he does address the involvement of universal life on page 11 (Roman numeral V, para. 3) of his thesis. I wonder why he did not address or mention P.#5 in his thesis. Question: Does P.#5 validate the “the law of conservation of e/matter” or does the law of conservation of matter empirically corroborate P#5?

      • Claude Lessard 05/08/2014, 3:43 pm:

        Joseph,

        Universal laws are metaphysical. They work as a group. There’s no measurements or hierarchies within metaphysical laws. It’s really only ONE law. It is we, human beings, WHO choose to break the ONE law into specific “tenets” of the ONE law, and we label them: the law of organization, the law of existence, the law of active organization, the law of life, the law of conservation of e/matter, the law of gravity, the law of aerodynamic, the law of thermodynamic, etc… The ONE law does not need validation… it just is… it is really all ONE. –

        – Reggie’s thesis is NOT about principle #5. Reggie’s thesis is about living e/matter as applied to vertebrate bodies. It deals with the integrity of living structural e/matter (configuration and velocity of electrons, protons and neutrons, what Stephenson’s calls “arrangements”). Living structural e/matter has three necessary united factors, namely, innate intelligence (metaphysical and always unlimited (perfect) as per pri,22), innate forces (metaphysical and always unlimited (perfect) as per pri.27) and e/matter (physical and always structurally limited (imperfect) as per pri.24). When interference with the transmission of innate forces is present, the integrity of the triune of living structural e/matter is compromised… hence the need for the chiropractic objective.

        • Steve 05/09/2014, 3:09 pm:

          ” Living structural e/matter has three necessary united factors, namely, innate intelligence (metaphysical and always unlimited (perfect) as per pri,22), innate forces (metaphysical and always unlimited (perfect) as per pri.27) and e/matter (physical and always structurally limited (imperfect) as per pri.24). When interference with the transmission of innate forces is present, the integrity of the triune of living structural e/matter is compromised… hence the need for the chiropractic objective.”
          Well written my friend. When, “the integrity of the triune of living structural e/matter is compromised”, the ONLY thing we can influence is transmission. Intelligence and force are perfect and matter cannot be created or destroyed. That matter is “limited” seems a much better descriptor than imperfect. Matter is also perfect in it’s essence, it is the organization of that matter that is compromised. As RW says, it is not fit for the circumstances. Being not enough, not the right kind or insufficiently structured, is not the fault of the matter.

          • Dave 05/09/2014, 4:03 pm:

            Many of you here are perhaps a bit more facile or eloquent in your presentations. Please excuse my perhaps less than precise comments. We speak of the transmission of innate force, sometimes called nerve interference. Within the science there present numerous theories, some of them dealing directly with the nerve, in the way of compression, or irritation, others more the neurology of the articulations and mechanoreceptors with deficits being called dysafferentations, etc.
            While I have no problem, from a philosophical point of view understanding the concept of interference of nerve transmission as being ANY disturbance to the intention of ii or innate forces within the neurological bed, some others, and correct me if I’m wrong, would still maintain the so called Pinched Nerve effect as being the one that the philosophy references. Is this so?

            And if not, certainly any transmission disturbance due to LOM, whether it’s a squeeze or stretch of a (nerve,sheath,dura, etc.) or disturbance to an articular bed, etc. that is not as innate intended it to be, I would constitute as a transmission interference thus fulfilling the requirement of the definition of subluxation, if it occured at a vertebra and for me ANY articular bed (Pelvis, knee, cranial). Does this make sense?

          • Joe Strauss 05/09/2014, 9:58 pm:

            Dave , I think our philosophy, in describing the characteristics of the vertebral subluxation, addresses the interference with the transmission of mental impulses between brain cell and tissue cell and does not address the biomechanical mechanism(s). Perhaps because BJ was not convinced that in his research, he had found the one or that there was only one. However the first 3 characteristics make it clear that VS occurs in the spine. PS anybody who forces me to look up a word is facile enough for this blog.

        • Joe Strauss 05/09/2014, 10:36 pm:

          Claude, I don’t know what you mean by “They work as a group”. Gravity is the same for everyone but its effects are different. One person breaks an leg, a second sprains an ankle, the third suffers no visible effects. Could you explain? I’m also not sure what you mean by “no measurements or hierarchies” If universal law is demonstrated by the effect it has on matter, surely that can be measured. Lastly, given sufficient “thrust” doesn’t the law of aerodynamics take precedence over the law of gravity. Would you not consider that hierarchal? Why not?
          I realize Reggie’s theses is not about principle #5 but I also think that no reference to P.#5 being primarily about “universal life” is rather odd and misses a teachable moment, something he rarely did.

          • Claude Lessard 05/10/2014, 11:14 am:

            Joseph,

            Your question was about hierarchy of universal laws and about the corroboration of principle #5. You question WAS metaphysical. I answered from the metaphysical intelligence point of view as CAUSE. You answered from the physical e/matter point of view as EFFECT. –

            – Good observation about Reggie.

          • Joe Strauss 05/12/2014, 12:10 am:

            Interesting point Claude, but don’t we always analyze a question regarding laws from both the metaphysical and physical perspective? There is only one law from the metaphysical perspective, the law of organization. But we choose to make it two laws from the physical perspective, universal intelligence and innate intelligence. One to demonstrate universal organization (existence) and one to demonstrate active organization (innate). I think we do that anthropathistically (with language of accommodation for our finite minds) because we can not get our heads around the idea that living (innate) matter is also universal matter unless and until we break it down into its atomic components physically and intellectually, in which state it is no longer living matter. So in reality this whole discussion boils down to a limitation of the matter of the educated brain and apparently the French Canadian brain has less limitations than an American one.

          • David Suskin 05/10/2014, 3:02 pm:

            Joe, You’re funny, and kind (per >> facile, and just a reading between the lines.)
            Just received your Chiro Philosophy Book > really a smart , helpful and thought provoking read. With regard to P.#5, have I gotten this all wrong),

            When you say ‘matter not expressing intelligence is life and matter not expressing intelligence is death The former always occurs and latter being a lack of existence cannot occur except on the theoretical level. From this we draw our fifth principle In order to have 100% life there must be 100% intelligence, 100% force and 100% matter. ” then you say >> ALL MATTER ALWAYS HAS THE 3 INSEPARABLE ASPECTS OF THE TRUINITY. >>

            All Matter?? so this means Universal Matter has 100% universal life?
            I’m a bit confused where universal life as a term coexists with innate life. Or are you saying (BJ, RW >> interpreted from), that Life is intrinsic in all matter, metaphysically and LIFE EXPRESSED in matter, is Innate Life >>> and that’s where you can have a LOM, but not in Matter (having 100% life), itself???

            Straighten be out on this one, if you would be so kind.

            PS. I’m applying these principles of ADIO, and adjustments for II, etc. and a patient said to me today, Doc, I come in once a week. Maybe every other week I can come in twice, so you can check me or adjust me???? HOW ABOUT THAT DR. SUSKIN – CHIROPRACTOR!!!! (talking to myself ) 🙂

  16. Claude Lessard 05/09/2014, 6:31 pm:

    Dave,

    You posted: “So I’d say even though, you don’t incorporate the above atlas adjustment, perhaps innate brain, and how the 33 principles manage incorporate into that, in terms of how to remove interference there, if it exists at all, by some other method than Spinal Adjustment. Is that Chiropractic???” –

    – What you call an “above atlas adjustment” does not exist. It is an Outside-In-Below-Up concept that is not the domain of innate intelligence. It refers to educated intelligence which is the capability of the educated brain in using the educated mind which is the activity which is the activity of the educated brain. According to the BJ and RWS, the innate brain cannot sustain incoordination of action. Therefore, what you are talking about is an impossibility from a philosophical standpoint. –

    – I do understand what you are saying by “getting out of your own way”.
    All I can say to you is: Read ALL of the BLUE BOOKS. –

    – Please, know that I got what you said. I accept what said and what you did not say. I accept the way you are and the way you are not. I am committed to get whatever you have to say me.

  17. Dave 05/09/2014, 6:53 pm:

    Book #1 >> on the way!
    So, all the hate, all the anger, all the drug abuse, all the
    addictions, all the selfishness, all the egotism, all the competitiveness, all the alcoholism, all the emotional issues, all the mania,
    HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHIROPRACTIC RESULTS. It could, but
    not within the philosophy, not a byproduct of anything Innately ‘Out Of Tune’ >> but the sun is eclipsed by the moon……… PF
    Chiropractic has no business in the head business. Sure, autosuggestion and the head business can cause subluxation (
    autosuggestion, physical, chemical) but the philosophy has no input into the cause of those human conditions.

    Yes/No

    Where does educated brain enter into this um, habits (RW), overrunning innate forces?? >> something there
    Yes/No (good habits (pro survival) , bad habits (neg survival)

    I will study

    • Joe Strauss 05/09/2014, 9:20 pm:

      First Dave, I’m sorry to hear that you are having all of those problems. However, to answer your question: I don’t know whether getting adjusted will make a little, a lot, a total difference or no difference at all. But inasmuch as your body always works better with a good nerve supply, with the ii expressing more life, wouldn’t you want to do everything you can to enable your body to work better including having your spine checked and adjusted if you are subluxated?
      The educated brain like every other organ of the body needs among other things, a good nerve supply. Will that make a difference? don’t know. Do you want to ignore the possibility that it will?

      • Don 05/09/2014, 11:35 pm:

        Joe,
        I really liked the way that challenge was posed.
        Not to answer for Dabe or sidetrack this thread but I have one question.
        If the answer was yes, I want to see if getting adjusted will make a difference . What would the difference be that is suggested?
        IOWs, there is a result. At what point does a person determine getting an adjustment is making a difference?
        Thanks.

        • Joe Strauss 05/12/2014, 1:46 pm:

          That’s a good question, Don. The answer is both philosophical and personal. Philosophically, their body would be working better (that’s deduction/common sense). Personally it would depend upon the matter of their body and its limitations, something I have no idea about. We gave a little booklet out to NPM which outlined that option and the possible ramifications of choosing it. I will try to get it up on the internet in the next few days but I’m going to Omaha to speak this weekend.

      • David Suskin 05/10/2014, 2:09 am:

        Joe,
        But again this portrayal of chiropractic, using your exact words >>

        “But inasmuch as your body always works better with a good nerve supply, with the ii expressing more life, wouldn’t you want to do everything you can to enable your body to work better including having your spine checked and adjusted if you are subluxated?”

        I could swap in the word drink more water (inasmuch as your body works better with more water), or better dental hygiene, or good food >> wouldn’t you want to do everything to enable … >>

        That’s very uninspiring. I’ve read in your blog posts, and here from Claude Lessard and Steve, some passionate and profound portrayals of adio, ii force >> that when thought about, when spoken about, it’s like hey, I’m adjusting this person and ENABLING LIFE TO TRAVEL IN THEIR BODY WHERE LIFE ISN’T. Something HUGE, so the benefit is HUGE. Or you can adjust someone, think of it a musculoskeletal massage, or breaking up of adhesions, Back Pain, etc., PT kind of stuff. BORING!
        Not something you’re going to inspire yourself with or your patients., Help yes, inspire, no. But Seeing the Dr within! Well that’s something else. And behind that Dr Within is II. That’s a BIG IDEA

        It’s PERSPECTIVE and understanding of this phenom called Chiropractic. That’s why I went into the field. But I couldn’t deliver the message because, I needed proof, because I didn’t understand I was mixing IO and OI >> I know I’m not alone. I’m trying to do it Innately right this time.

        But since Chiropractic as a philosophy is seemingly so inclusive, so broad, so potentially embowering, I have concluded that their must be a mental component to it, therefore a consciousness/ subconscious component to it, because that’s where so so so many problems exist, I believe, I’ll say it’s almost self evident, like Universal Intelligence. Freud said it, Dali Lama says it, Budda said it, Jesus said it, Good Psychotherapists say it. It has to somewhere fit into the philosophy or the aspect of Dr teaching the philosophy to their PM’s or the experience of understanding and then viewing life thru the lens of the philosophy that has an effect on the removal of nerve interference or more directly allowing ii or innate forces to integrate into altered matter (matter thats habituated, matter that’s reflexed, matter that’s emotionally patterned) and setting it straight, creating aha moments, enabling more self actualization, allowing more universal attraction, promoting more EASE in oneself and in ones environment. Do you understand what I’m trying to say? I’m not being negative. I’m trying to grasp something that I sense (and I could be wrong I admit), I have to do, with Chiropractic, with MY PM’s for a good good sound and inclusive true Chiropractic experience. The education to the patient is paramount.

        I’ll say that Chiropractic IS a philosophy not only because that is true, but because the understanding of it and living it, is what gets sick people well, or at least enables ii to transmit it’s innate forces with the least interference. The art commands a doing and receiving from another person to a person. That’s a healing relationship. The science covers the ground of Matter, so that Matter will react better, perhaps from a Quantum entanglement of truth of fact actualizing a situation in a patient that thought they were just a blob of protoplasm.

        And their we go again. It’s perspective that’s shaping this whole thing.
        Do you understand? Am I making sense?
        Got your book Chiropractic Philosophy and Enhance your life experience today. I’ll be reading it. Thanx for writing it

        Dave

        • Joe Strauss 05/10/2014, 3:09 pm:

          Dave, I appreciate your forthrightness and your honesty. Thank you. I think you are expressing a problem that we all experience and struggle with every day, our entire careers. Deep down inside we all yearn to be the DOCTOR, the healer, the one who “gets sick people well” when no one else can. It’s called Pride and it got Lucifer kicked out of heaven and Adam and the Woman kicked out of the Garden.We want to push the medics off the pedestal and climb up there ourselves, to be worshipped because we have this great power (chiropractic) in our hands. It is not the power we have but the power in the PM’s body. Truly the “power that made the body, heals the body” but I think too often we want people to believe that we are the source of that power. We want the PM to believe that the power is US or WHAT WE CAN DO. I often would tell PM’s on the first visit, we’re like the little old 95 lb. lady who comes upon a Cadillac stuck in a snow drift, spinning its wheels. She leans on the back of the car and it goes on it way. “I am like that little old lady leaning on your spine. It’s the 350 horsepower under your hood that is doing the job.” (I like most people don’t even know how many horsepower my car has, let alone how it works, how it manages to carry 2+ tons of steel, plastic and people, 60mph. I don’t know that because it doesn’t inspire me. Knowing how the innate intelligence of my body works, does… or should. Do we ever excitedly explain to people the fact that we do not even make the adjustment. The innate intelligence of their body does. The truly inspiring aspect of chiropractic comes long before that last little question I asked is posed or the “miracle” occurs (if it ever does). It comes when they have been inspired by how fantastic (the innate intelligence of ) their body is, what it does every moment of every day in health and disease, when its innate forces are being expressed. It is not inspiring what we do, as my good friend Joe Donofrio says, “we only push on bumps”. It’s inspiring what the innate intelligence of the PM’s body can do when it is free of interference, what it does every day, often in spite of the presence of vertebral subluxation. To carry on the automobile analogy: I bought a new Audi 50000 in the mid 1980’s. Shortly after I got it the company was sued because a couple of people said that the car kept accelerating even after the brake was applied. Audi sent me and thousands of other owners a video tape of a professional race driver driving an Audi with the driver’s door removed and a camera mounted outside showing him and the speedometer. The video showed that the driver got the car up to 70 mph, applied the brake, keeping his other foot on the accelerator. The car stopped. It took a little longer but not much. The brake would override the engine. People need to know that having a VS is like driving around with the emergency brake on. It won’t stop you like the foot brake but it won’t allow all the power of the engine to be expressed. Chiropractors just disengage the emergency brake. Heck, my wife can even do that from the passenger seat when forgetful me is slowly backing out of the driveway.
          Chiropractic and chiropractors are not meant to be inspiring. That’s where we run into problems, trying to inspire people with the message of what chiropractic can do or worse yet what we can do. Chiropractic is a humbling profession and in that sense, very uninspiring. The innate intelligence resident within every person’s body who lies on our table is inspiring. I realize I am “preaching to the choir” but even the choir, like the laity, needs to hear the sermon every Sunday.

          • David Suskin 05/10/2014, 4:08 pm:

            Amen!
            Joseph, I got it. I’m taking NO credit. That was my problem 1st time around, more or less. I did my Chiropractoid (aka DeGiacomo RIP), stuff, and I never really got it going. Like I’ve said. What got me into Chiropractic, was someone showing me RW’s book. I instinctually got it, but never STUDIED IT! really wring out dry and challenge it in discussion, etc. The science had to prove it and all the management gurus and bosses, well they’d focus on Manipulation of People, with good intention, but there always was something that turned me off, that i felt uncomfortable with. Oh I’d been thru many management firms as many Chiros have, but I wouldn’t change. Something was in the way (Trying to clear that up now). So after 20 years, I packed it up, and went into computer programming. That’s my mathematical side. Now there was something I could control. A machine! People? No way, couldn’t do it, they demanded it (symptom removal), at least I thought so, and my self doubting, and paralysis of analysis nature (there’s that psychological tone), well it all got in the way. No science, no acceptance by the public and media, THE MAIN PUBLIC THE MAIN MEDIA, maybe Mom and Dad?? >> So I got out of Chiropractic, like I said, but now, after 14 years of this nonsense, I can’t do it any more. For various reasons which i’d say right now, but I fear some search engine will pick it up and broadcast it LOL. Point is, I’m done with computers, I’m done with WORKING FOR A BOSS!!!!!! And so, I relooked at chiropractic, and realized that to do it, I had to do it my way, and what was that way? What was the reason for ME that appealed to me, that inspired ME. Was it the adjustment? slightly. It was the philosophy! So here I am, retooling myself. Yes, I LACVS Period, and now I want to understand, in depth, why. and it seems to be working. It is a mantra, it is my philosophical nature, my spiritual nature, the experiencing of II within myself. And now I can say to my patients
            Aren’t you amazing, aren’t you a miracle, aren’t you a vital, expression, unique, a pinnacle of process that the Stars and the Universe unseen created. You and all of mankind, and nature and matter! All of it.

            So that inspires me. People, myself included have been robbed by DAOI thinking. In education, In competition (me vs you), in a plethora of ego generating illusions, starting with Mom and Dad (all well intentioned mind you).

            It’s time for me to point to the truth as I see it, offer the helping hand once more to PM, and I believe I’ll be happy doing that, and of course loving my family, playing my music, and continue to grow as an ii being.

            Yes I know this is perhaps a deviation from the 33 principles, but hey, I’m expressing this, so, somewhere either it’s about the 33 principles or the 33 principles has spawned this.

            I’ll continue to contribute to this blog and continue to learn from all of you. Thank you for being here, when I needed to find this outlet and information source to further my journey.
            :):)

        • Joe Strauss 05/12/2014, 1:31 pm:

          Dave, you could swap in he phrase “drink water” but not “more water”. If people knew how important and vital water is to the body they may be more inspired/motivated, surely not less. By the may my NPM video explained that the body can live weeks without food, days without water, minutes without oxygen but not one second without a nerve supply.It is a known fact that everyone needs water but whether an individual needs more water , only the ii of their body knows and it would be presumptuous and the practice of medicine for us to make that recommendation. We only make the judgment that a person needs “more mental impulse” because a VS indicates that they have less than 100%.
          “You also wrote, “But since Chiropractic as a philosophy is seemingly so inclusive, so broad, so potentially embowering, I have concluded that their must be a mental component to it, therefore a consciousness/ subconscious component to it, because that’s where so so so many problems exist, I believe,…” I don’t think there is a mental component but a mental effect just as there is a physical effect of “getting sick people well”. We in OSC do not address or dwell on the specific effects of LACVS except to say the body expresses more of its innate forces and its innate potential without VS. Being free of VS may enable you to be a better Buddhist but not make a Christian out of a Buddhist. Chiropractic philosophy is “so inclusive, so broad, so potentially empowering’, IMO only because its objective is so narrow. I hope the two books are helpful in your journey. Joe

          • David Suskin 05/12/2014, 1:57 pm:

            They are.
            It’s interesting, and I think i referred to this in another tread, that
            Chinese Medicine >> with basically yin/yang and 5 elements at its core, embed those principles into all living patterns, behavior, emotional palettes, weaknesses, strengths. Presenting ways to life >> Lifestyle, I guess we call it, but individualized. My take, could be wrong, is that it’s something universal >> yin/yang polarization >> 5 element distribution. The Indian culture has it’s own aryuvedic analysis that is similar but different, and does embed itself into yoga (spinal), meditation, >> again, way to live >> lifestyle >> individualized

            OK So we have The Triune
            1. Intelligence
            2. Force
            3. Matter

            I’d like to see, or wonder if, or perhaps you can point me if it exists

            Some form or system (maybe it is the 33 principles), that takes these
            working concepts, intelligence, force, matter, 33 principles, and the spin off concepts (safety pin cycle, symptoms, heredity, (i forget some of the subsections of RW that discuss other concepts. You touch upon them in your Chiropractic Philosophy book) >> but something more, definitive >> that an individual can say. Ok based on this principle and this deduction I should do this, or eat this, or not eat this, or view this or this is lacking in a perspective, SOMETHING. Yes I know we have the brilliant ADIO >> but relying on ones intuition or common sense, or how my body feels or what I think >> it does get a bit challenging for an individual to have such a profound reality and observation like Chiropractic philosophy, and not be able to apply it to any and everything in a definitive way.

            I’d think that the Triune, or some systematic cycle, could lay over any event and help an individual to make Educated decisions based on it, again to point one in the direction of optimum lifestyle for an individual.

            Do you understand what I’m asking? Maybe it’s there already. It’s called ADIO, take responsibility, do the best you can, and let the chips fall where they fall. But somehow I think there must be more GUIDANCE within these Chiropractic Truths we find self evident.

          • David Suskin 05/12/2014, 3:36 pm:

            Joe,
            with regards to …but not one second without a nerve supply…

            I wonder about this. Of course we know these things (eg. body need for O2, food consumption, water?) thru science and observation. The science already shows we can live with out a nerve supply to kidneys, liver, I don’t know, maybe the heart, some other organs. I know this is not an optimal situation, and yes ii is being interfered with or will have to adapt. No Nerve Supply, well again, The brain, that’s a nerve supply, but we’re not really talking about specific organs, so what part of the nerve supply are we talking about when we say, we cannot survive 1 sec without a nerve supply? A nerve supply to what?

            I’m sure the knowledge is there, I just don’t know. Certainly was surprised when I realized that heart cells don’t reproduce, or kidney cells, don’t reproduce, in the adult >> basically, >> yes we’re finding there are stem cells in these organs, and that is not really true, and perhaps with ii and no interference, these stem cells will regenerate function and/or organs >> but certainly these tissues are not like epithelial tissues. And yes this is an entirely different subject.
            But I’d like perhaps your, or anyones opinion on this.

            Yes, I see the ii removal of interference as the primary purpose in chiropractic, once again, I circle into this subject of philosophy mixing with science, and finding out that if the science proves wrong, then now what do we say. Of course, find a different example, or philosophically, hold to it and hey we find out with more science and investigation and induction that, >> there are stem cells, however minute on kidneys and heart muscle, called satellite cells (electron microscope identified), so in time we induce that our deductions are correct, but in the mean time >> Confusion and discussion, siting examples could prove wrong.

            eg. Give a talk to people about ii, and chiropractic, site some examples and a couple of md’s in the audience vehemently state.
            WRONG! >> now what do you say ??

            Do I sound conflicted? 🙂 I think so

          • Joe Strauss 05/12/2014, 6:44 pm:

            Obviously Dave, individual organs and part can work without a nerve supply but the legal-medical determination of death is absence of brain waves. To address your question “about ii and chiropractic”, having spoken at medical schools on 3 occasions I have never had a professor challenge anything I said. If you stick to the philosophy the medics cannot challenge you. When you begin to get into medical issues, your are in dangerous territory.

          • David Suskin 05/12/2014, 6:06 pm:

            I’m going to answer my own question. Perhaps you can comment on some points in my most recent comments, or just this one.
            As it pertains to a philosophy and system applied to life, as the acupuncture yin/yang – 5 element theory expanded to living, I think that would be analogous to chiropractic philosophy + the art, which would encompass techniques. That’s why some techniques get involved with spinal level, perhaps oriented to an organ system and what that means stress wise to the person and to the subluxation, from a physical, chemical, mental causation analysis. It’s been done many times in Chiropractic, particularly in the world of AK and muscle testing. The thing is, and this perhaps applies to chinese yin/yan 5 element theory applied too, is that the whole thing while using the body as an indicator, so called innate binary yes/no indicators, whether thru leg checks or muscle testing, well the whole thing gets very OI. I understand the OSC is specific to subluxation correction. Period, and I do get that. And that the whole arena of determining what to do to prevent subluxation, or aid in subluxation correction, or aid in proper living habits, and strategies for better thinking, or better living, becomes a quagmire, filled with lots of OI opinion and direction. The development of experts to make suggestions on health and disease and symptoms and emotional healing?? Well it all gets very complicated, vs the OSC administration of a Universal Force (adjustment), in the most accurate direction, timing and force that innate can use most effectively (educated OI) but with the understanding that that’s IT >> Delivered, accomplish your adjustment criteria and let Innate do it’s job – using that universal force to make the adjustment, and administered and performed repeatedly, with checking first, over time. That’s a large enough task to do, and big enough idea. Maybe even bigger, particularly if the PM get’s it educatedly and can incorporate it into their lifestyle and way of thinking >> ADIO??

            Thoughts Professor?

  18. Dave 05/10/2014, 12:14 am:

    Thanx Joe. I’m ok but much of the world isn’t. That was my negative reference from before eg. Anger alcohol selfishness. You know. The human condition. I’m blessed. Very blessed. Yes I’m searching. Yes I’m trying to deliver a chiropractic message and style of practice that will allow congruency and success.
    Here’s the deal. I think it’s good to have a philosophy or understanding of health that’s adio. But it has to be taught. Shown. And I’m comfortable more now doing that then years ago. I think it’s important. But philosophically. I’m not sure it’s pertenent. I guess I’m trying to find the ii reason that it’s part of chiropractic. Part of practice. Part of. Health. And so the more I listen to patients. And THEIR problems. The better the adjustment will be received. And referrals will happen naturally because I was involved in a spiritual realm. Not just a physical realm

    • Joe Strauss 05/11/2014, 11:32 am:

      Dave, I was only kidding with the “negative reference” joke. I’m sure you don’t have that long litany of difficulties. I do have a serious question though. Please feel free to not answer it, if so inclined. If you had to choose between delivering and having a chiropractic message and practice that was “congruent” OR “successful”, which would you choose? By successful, I mean by the world’s standards.

      • David Suskin 05/12/2014, 7:21 pm:

        Yes I understand that per: (When you begin to get into medical issues, your are in dangerous territory)

        Doesn’t principle 28 get into that territory ( as stated: The Conductors of Innate Forces – The forces of Innate Intelligence operate through or over the nerve system in animal bodies.) and

        for argument sake, let’s say you have a brain, no autonomic nervous system (removed) but you have everything else. I mean I don’t know if this would live, but imagine it does. The nervous system would communicate through the endocrine hypo-pituitary axis. There would be innate intelligence in the cells.
        Yes it’s presumptuous to think life would be able to be sustained, so where would the cutoff point be that the 1second death rule would take place, and if it was death to the brain, that’s the 1 second rule, then maybe the brain communicates endocrine wise, and through some other channel (fields, ??) –

        My point in all this is, yes the nervous system function was defined in chiropractic school >> Dorlands, and yes we studied physiologically, and yes it would seem that the nervous system is proving out to be a major major SAFETY PIN cycle, but alot of that, back in the day, and even in chiropractic school was should I say speculation, or ya know, using the authority of Gray’s Anatomy to prove something, when in fact it was just medical opinion, but not necessarily fact, as has been shown by once again my example of organs that survive in our bodies without nervous system direct control at least.

        I know, I know, I’m playing devils advocate here, but these are some of the mind games, that I’ve played with myself and I’m sure others have, that have given me doubt to what it was I was truely doing when I adjusted someone. I mean, I’m not adjusting a philosophy, or putting my intention into a philosophy!! I’m adjusting a PERSON.
        So what really, factually is going on?? if it is known, except that many times, Sick People Do Get Well, and perhaps Life Function Improves?? But do we really really know how??

        • Claude Lessard 05/13/2014, 12:27 am:

          Dave,

          You stated: … “but these are some of the mind games, that I’ve played with myself and I’m sure others have, that have given me doubt to what it was I was truely doing when I adjusted someone.” Thank you for your honesty. There’s a lot of unlearning to do Dave. –

          – Chiropractic has a stable foundational platform in its BASIC chiropractic science comprised of 33 principles that are absolute. It is you WHO can choose to play mind games and be robbed of the conviction and clarity of the authority of the 33 principles. It is also you WHO can choose to move deeply into a greater understanding of chiropractic science and hold on to the conviction and clarity of the authority of the 33 principles… correlated to the art and practice of the chiropractic objective through its philosophy. You posses the free will to choose. Choose the elegant choice for your self and you life. You are worth it. Your practice members will be forever grateful. You are on your way to OWN the chiropractic philosophy. It’s been a 38 year journey for you so far, don’t it’s time to not waste time worrying? After all it’s been said that the rest will follow. —

          – Just tell the story over and over and over and over again in as many creative ways as you can do it… As a improvisor of JAZZ, I am sure that you have ALL the creativity you’ll ever need. 😉

          • Claude Lessard 05/13/2014, 10:23 am:

            … in other words, when I say “don’t you think it’s time to not waste time worrying”, I mean that it is you WHO may be called to choose to give up playing the devil’s advocate that feeds various forms of half-heartedness, deceit, vanity, or illusions from yourself. If you then could see through these illusions, it would destroy most of their mind game and power. Unlearning is hard work. It’s shadow boxing and humiliating. The Blue Books could surely guide you toward the next step of Dr. David Suskin’s journey. 😉

          • David Suskin 05/13/2014, 12:47 pm:

            Hi Claude,
            Interesting that sometimes I write something focused on some aspect, and you comment on some other aspect. Thank you for taking notice of the spaces, but do I agree, do I agree.

            When you say
            “you WHO can choose to move deeply into a greater understanding of chiropractic science and hold on to the conviction and clarity of the authority of the 33 principles… correlated to the art and practice of the chiropractic objective through its philosophy. You posses the free will to choose. Choose the elegant choice for your self and you life. ”
            My only conclusion is that Chiropractic is a phenomenon.
            Are you saying that making the choice, allows you to see and others to see, and allows ii to reign in proper dimension in yourself and in you PM’s?

            I practice Activator. I find it incredibly suitable. It tells me where and when subluxation correction has taken place, over time. It is a toggle recoil dynamic that fulfills a universal force dynamic that innate(s) react to well. What technique do you, or have you relied on. And more importantly, it would appear that you are suggesting that ones Chiropractic Philosophy decides ones Chiropractic destiny, in that
            the science as described is but a metaphor to something much larger than what the science is prepared to observe, so use the metaphor of so called pinched nerve. It’s ample enough. The science is not the science of why or how, it’s more of the science that backs up your art of adjusting and detecting subluxation. The art is using the science and intent of the philosophy to administer the most useful universal force as directed by your own ii as as a chiropractor? Is this something close to your suggesting
            elegance?

            That philosophy reigns thru intent and conviction and communication?
            Since Chiropractic unites the physical with the spiritual, it’s adjusting from a philosophical perspective that gets the ball rolling, so to speak.

            Did Gonstead have that reality? with his EXIL, PRI L2 >> Neurocolometer detected thrust. Or the Upper cervical to adj or not to adjust based on instrumentation and listing and thrust.

            Does philosophy bring one to the level of chiropractor that one should be at?

            Have I mistepped my whole career by not following the footsteps I was meant to follow at the right time?

            Am I getting there now and will I arrive. It’s a difficult journey.
            I would think, it should have been more naturally right, but at least now I’m on a path of discovery by exploring.

            I hope for greater understanding and commitment to this chiropractic thing, that enables my choice and to be actualized in congruent growing success for my PM’s and myself

          • David Suskin 05/13/2014, 1:10 pm:

            When you say
            …it is you WHO may be called to choose to give up playing the devil’s advocate…
            Who’s or What is going to call me? A dream, a cognifition (ureka!),
            >> I think I basically understand 🙂

            So I have book >> Chiropractic Philosophy >> very instructional and a great start, Plus these blogs, to help me organize what (RW) was saying into a perhaps different way of organizing and interpreting his information which I presume was an amalgamation of BJ’s works and (DD).

            So what do you suggest for book2 >> I was curious about Joe’s book >> Practice Building for Straight Chiropractors, but you tell me, if you would be so intuitive and helpful?

            A Love Supreme

  19. David Suskin 05/13/2014, 3:30 pm:

    Claude
    as per: “don’t you think it’s time to not waste time worrying”
    Yes, I do think it is time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But so it seems, it has been hard to change.
    Sometimes, as a mental-emotional exercise I say, David imagine, you had an OSC practice, walked the walk, talked the talk. And where I currently full time work, at a JOB, that’s another story, >> and I never had to go back to that job. It’s over and done. I am finally having and do the life of my dreams.

    Well I do that, and sometimes, THAT TIME you speak of >> speaks and says, Wow >> what a heavy load you’ve been carrying Dave. All that tension leaves. and I’m on – purpose.

    You had mentioned in an earlier thread something about (problems-answers-problems-answers) >> Yes, learning is arduous, it’s Work and Discipline. and I know I’m getting closer, just seeing my Chiropractic OSC and peace of mind growing. But NOW IS THE TIME… Sometimes I feel so close and yet so far far away.

    I fear the patients, the failure, not meeting up to their standards. And yes many times it’s me caught in between a healing ADIO orientation and the patients Chief Complaint.

    It’s a feeling, so oriented around fixing things, and thinking that’s why people pay me, to fix them and I know that is not what’s happening here, I KNOW IT, (ADIO), but I still anx myself about, I don’t know, rejection, failure, having to continue where I work which is so stressful! It’s hard. I know I’m blessed with so many many things, and that, ya know: Everyone sits around a table puts their problems on it, and ya wind up taking yours back, cause you wouldn’t want to trade yours for someone elses! That ole story.

    ANYWAY – back to Philosophy!
    I think I need to have the Major Premise embedded in my subconscious. It has to be my cup of tea. That will take time, learning, reading, trial and error in talking the talk. Time, Time >>
    And you say, the Time is Now David Suskin! It is Now >> It always was Now, and always will be Now.

    I need to forgive myself, honor myself, be my own best parent to myself. And I think I need to lighten up, enjoy the ride, go with the flow. Bask in the sunlight of ADIO, but sometimes I need to know where and what that emotion really is. EASE?? I’d guess >>> EASE

    • Claude Lessard 05/13/2014, 4:11 pm:

      Dave,

      You stated: “The art is using the science and intent of the philosophy to administer the most useful universal force as directed by your own ii as as a chiropractor? Is this something close to your suggesting elegance?” –

      – Dave, innate intelligence is a LAW… the law of active organization. Let me write what you posted again in a different way: “The art is using the science and intent of the philosophy to administer the most useful universal force as directed by your own LAW OF ACTIVE ORGANIZATION as a chiropractor?” Is it the LAW OF ACTIVE ORGANIZATION that directs your specific adjustic thrust or is it your educated intelligence and WHO you choose to be at the moment as a chiropractor?

  20. Claude Lessard 05/13/2014, 4:14 pm:

    Dave,

    You asked me: “So what do you suggest for book2 >>” –

    – “TOWARD A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PHILOSOPHY OF CHIROPRACTIC”. Strauss, 1999

  21. David Suskin 05/13/2014, 4:39 pm:

    TY (book2) it will be…

    With regards to II being a law >> the law of active organization;

    and innate forces are any mental impulse force in a life form, whether from cell or tissue or organ or organism?
    In previous posts you seem to indicate e/matter as organized in specific ways to manifest their existence and promote their innate functions. I seem to infer that nerve tissue and related structures >> maybe (receptors), maybe cell membranes, etc. had roles that integrated ‘The Mental Impulse’ >>

    The Law of organization >> II, is a principle, one of the 33.
    So principle 31 (yes I’m back to this again), is about II using the nervous system. Based on what you might have indicated (see above), is that somehow involved with Principle 31 Being LAW!!!
    or is it not a law, but more of an assumption, or a common sense observation?? I’d really like to understand, deductively how II and the Nervous System are integrated as shown by philosophical deductive processes and arguments.

    Do you understand?
    🙂

    • Claude Lessard 05/13/2014, 5:55 pm:

      Dave, you asked: “I’d really like to understand, deductively how II and the Nervous System are integrated as shown by philosophical deductive processes and arguments.
      Do you understand?” –

      – I do understand. –

      – Let us inquire, together without condemnation, if it is possible through philosophical deductive processes and arguments based on the authority of the 33 principles. –

      – 1- The law of organization (ui) maintains e/matter (living and non-living) in existence (pri 1). –

      – 2- The law of active organization (ii) maintains ONLY e/matter of living things alive (pri.20). –

      – 3- The function of the law of active organization is to adapt universal forces and e/matter for use in the body, so that ALL parts of the body will have COORDINATED ACTION for mutual benefit (pri.23). The forces of the law of active organization operate through or over the nervous system in LIVING animal bodies (pri.28) and there can be interference with the TRANSMISSION of innate forces (pri.29) that is ALWAYS directly or indirectly due to subluxations in the spinal column (pri.31). –

      – Therefore, together without condemnation, we can deduce, from the authority of the 33 principles, that VS violates the integrity of The Principle of Coordination and prevents ALL the parts of the organism, to fulfill their offices and purpose (pri.32). –

      – The nerve system is the TRANSMITTING matter within the living body. The law of active organization adapts universal forces and e/matter (pri.23). The physical brain/nerve system is a specially coded e/matter, by the law of active organization, for TRANSMSSION which is USED, by that same law of active organization, for COORDINATION of ACTION of ALL the parts of the body for mutual benefit. In animal bodies,the physical brain/nerve system is used ONLY to fulfill the Principle of Coordination (pri.32). On the other hand, living e/matter is maintained in existence by the law of organization, and is maintained alive at the cellular level by law of active organization… until the last living cell of living e/matter is broken down to its atomic elements… whereby living e/matter becomes non-living e/matter and is maintained in existence at the atomic level by the law of organization. –

      – Dave, I sincerely hope this creates a NEW possibility for you and your life, that INSPIRES you to MOVE toward a, as you mentioned in a previous post, “greater understanding and commitment to this chiropractic”… 😉

      • David Suskin 05/13/2014, 6:57 pm:

        Claude, TY for taking the time and energy, sincerely but am I missing something here.

        You stated:
        authority
        Me: who’s authority?
        of the 33 principles, that VS violates the integrity of The Principle of Coordination and prevents ALL the parts of the organism, to fulfill their offices and purpose (pri.32). –

        – The nerve system is the TRANSMITTING matter within the living body.
        Me: transmitting yes, transmitting innate force?? How do we know this. It’s an assumption, yes/no?

        The law of active organization adapts universal forces and e/matter (pri.23). The physical brain/nerve system is a specially coded e/matter
        Me: specially coded. I wouldn’t disagree with this as a speculation, but to state it as AUTHORITY, it’s presumptuous, not philosophically deducted or inducted??
        , by the law of active organization, for TRANSMSSION which is USED, by that same law of active organization, for COORDINATION of ACTION of ALL the parts of the body for mutual benefit.

        In animal bodies,the physical brain/nerve system is used ONLY to fulfill the Principle of Coordination (pri.32).
        Me: again – it’s making the assumption that the nervous system is fulfilling a purpose as defined by defining it by it’s definition.

        It’s like questioning. Why is the sky blue? and answering it >> Because the sky is blue.

        I’m missing something here as far as a philosophical prove.
        I mean I can say that ‘to ishcabibal’ means to question??? no it doesn’t. I made that up. Or ‘ishcabibal’ is god’s name. No isn’t. I made that up. So am I missing something here

        Thank you for your patience
        Dave 🙂

        • David Suskin 05/13/2014, 7:59 pm:

          I’m just adding – That I was the first person to comment in this post (see top), and it was exactly this same question. Joe basically said >>
          i think empirical evidence examples like decapitation, hanging, electrocution all indicate that the nerve system is essential to life.
          Me: essential true, the coordinating system of ii? How can I philosophically assume that. As part as an authoritative source, that defines a whole profession,

          he then continues >> That doesn’t mean that the innate intelligence of the body uses the nerve system exclusively but it is an important tool of the ii.
          Me: sounds good to me, but as a deduction from the principle(s) before >> how does one arrive at that. It’s a leap of faith.
          that principle 1 (MP) is a leap of faith >> self evident, etc. I can understand. It’s the beginning of the principles, but each principle is suppose to be a deduction based on the one(s) before. And again the mixing of a philosophical premise and then one that is interwoven into something biological. That becomes a stretch, as if there are some missing principles that would tie this together, emphatically. yes/no?? >> it’s another leap of faith which really should only be principle 1 yes/no?

          Anyway – I’d like you, if you will be so, kind and intellectually astute, to take these 2 threads (this one and the one before) and see if you can address them so this simple son (passover reference) can become a wise son. 🙂

          Kindly
          Dave

        • Claude Lessard 05/13/2014, 8:45 pm:

          Dave,

          It is me WHO choose to accept the 33 principles as the ONLY authority of chiropractic. It is me WHO choose to BE grateful to our founders as we would not be here to engage in this ongoing conversation. I have pointed the principles involved in your inquiry. Now it is TIME (your time) to take it up with the 33. I know that the Blue Books will assist you in your journey. It is me WHO have chosen to take my stand. Now it is you WHO is called by your own inquiry to take your stand.

          • David Suskin 05/13/2014, 8:50 pm:

            Gotcha. Clearly. And Thank You.

          • Claude Lessard 05/13/2014, 9:02 pm:

            Dave,

            I just read your last post. The MP is assumed from observation of universal organization and through inductive reasoning is formulated as principle #1. Chiropractic ASSUMES the Major Premise as its AUTHORITY and using rational logic, deduced 32 principles which give rise to the chiropractic objective. It is me WHO choose to assume the the 33 principles as the AUTHORITY of chiropractic.

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