Q&A #71

25

What is the difference between taking the philosophy exactly as DD and BJ presented it or taking what they gave us and refining and expanding upon it? How do we insure that in doing the latter we are not changing their original intent?

Be Sociable, Share!
Posted in: Thinking Straight

This article has 25 comments

  1. CHARLES HOLLENSED DC 12/17/2015, 4:51 pm:

    Joe without your interpretations and clarifications and extrapolations the works of DD and particularly BJ they would be gathering dust on the shelf. What they said is the foundation. I am glad others are building on it. We do need care that we stay on point but then you and a few others are doing an excellent job. I would never had looked at BJ except for your work explaining him and it. It is also an inspiration to see their work reflected in ways that get us away from DDs questionable “sprit guide” and BJs extreme “innate” voice.

    • Claude Lessard 12/17/2015, 6:10 pm:

      I maintained before that if DD and BJ were with us today that they would refine what they began and clarify the philosophy according to our present consciousness. Furthermore, it is my knowledge of DD and BJ and his genius that they would continue to lead us deeper through an ADIO understanding of the 33 principles of chiropractic’s basic science. –

      – History reveals,in BJ, an evolutionary consciousness that furthered DD’s work, much the same as Reggie futhered BJ’s work. The primordial intent was, is and will be ALWAYS be to point to and affirm that existence is flowing from Above-Down-Inside-Out and that vertebrates’ innate forces can be interfered with by… VS. –

      – Today, objective chiropractors continue to point to and affirm that existence is flowing from Above-Down-Inside-Out and that vertebrates’ innate forces are interfered with… by VS.

      • Claude Lessard 12/17/2015, 6:16 pm:

        In other words, DD and BJ’s intent are safeguarded by objective chiropractors as they refine and clarify the 33 principles of chiropractic’s basic science and expand its philosophy.

      • David Suskin 12/17/2015, 11:15 pm:

        May I suggest, that DD was the Discover, BJ was the Developer, and That we Proclaim a Basic Science from, and have established The Authority and Chiropractic Philosophy to BE the 33Ps, and that RWS deserves a Major recognition within this Chiropractic Evolution, as The Author of, or Inspirationalist, or the Framer, (perhaps someone could suggest a more appropriate term) of Chiropractic Philosophy from which we continue to expand upon, since 1927.
        It would seem that RWS put it all together. Without RWS, there might not be an OSC.
        I might be wrong with the more limited knowledge that I have, in toto.
        Correct me if I am incorrect.

      • David Suskin 12/18/2015, 12:32 pm:

        Does existence flow from ADIO or does force, or does the triune?

        • Claude 12/18/2015, 3:21 pm:

          David,

          A universal intelligence IS… in ALL e/matter (pri1) creating force (pri8) which unites intelligence to e/matter (pri10) giving to it all its properties and actions, which are then expressed by e/matter (pri13) and manifested by motion in e/matter (pri14)… revealing the existence of e/matter through its organization. Note that the start point of principle one is the ISNESS of universal intelligence! Therefore, it follows that EVERYTHING flows from it… Above-Down-Inside-Out, leading to the end point of chiropractic which is its objective. –

          – Chiropractic is contained within the 33 principles of chiropractic’s basic science from its start point to its end point. Period.

          • David Suskin 12/18/2015, 5:33 pm:

            Claude,
            So Existence is NOT FLOWING from Above-Down-Inside-Out.
            and
            Without RWS would there be the 33 Principles?

          • william reinholt 12/21/2015, 8:11 pm:

            Although we say we are objective…What glares at us is the inability to provide objective evidence we have eliminated or reduced VS. Your thoughts?

      • william reinholt 12/21/2015, 8:04 pm:

        ” innate forces can be interfered with by…VS
        Question, “How do you know (objectively) that you have eliminated VS, so that you will be able to know you have achieved the purpose of the adjustment? Reminding you that the patient’s purpose for being there is for you to provide something that will take away their illness or discomfort, while our objective is not the treatment of their ache or pain or illness or sickness or disease, but the elimination of the VS. So my question is, “How do you know you have or have not succeeded in eliminating the VS?

        • David Suskin 12/22/2015, 4:19 pm:

          I’d think that you have to explain the metaphysical component, innate intelligence to the PM. They would have to understand that, like you, that, it’s innate intelligence which uses the adjustic force to correct the subluxation. If you have a technique which YOU feel comfortable with that LACVS, then your analysis will determine Correction. Mind you correction is based on educated intelligence determining when there is subluxation and when there is not. I have my technique (Activator), you might have yours, that fits within your logic to see the footprint of subluxation and subluxation correction. For me at least, I am satisfied with innate intelligence being able to use what I assess as an adjustment, as per the analysis that Activator affords me.

        • Claude Lessard 12/22/2015, 4:32 pm:

          William,

          The practice of chiropractic uses rational logic based on the 33 principles of its basic science which conclude the chiropractic objective. –

          – Your question is: “How do you know you have or have not succeeded in eliminating the VS?” The answer is: “You don’t know since it is NOT you that eliminate VS. It is ONLY the innate intelligence of the member’s body that corrects VS. –

          – When we address VS, we introduce an educated universal force (EUF), that we term an adjustic thrust, with the intent that it “maybe” adapted for use in the member’s body (pri23) by the innate intelligence of the member’s body to correct VS (pri31). The technique that I personally choose to use, is the ADIO analysis consisting of muscle palpation. Pre-check allows me to locate and analyze VS. Then I introduce my adjustic thrust consisting of a specific educated universal force. Post-check allows me to determine whether or not there has been a change with the muscles used for the analysis. If there is a change, I leave the member’s body alone until the next visit. If there is no noticeable change, I also leave the member’s body alone until the next visit. It is me WHO chooses HOW to practice the chiropractic objective with ADIO analysis. Of course, my practice members must understand that it is their innate intelligence that runs their body for everything, including the correction of VS. A thorough educational program has been invented in my practice. It consists of one foundational orientation and mini versions of it at each subsequent visits in the form of questions and answers Some people have been practice members for over 40 years now. For example, this week’s question is: “How many cells die off in your body each day?” They give their answer. Then I asked them: “How many cells replace those cells that died?” They give their answer. Then I asked: “What controls this cell turnover?” Over 95% respond: INNATE INTELLIGENCE… with a HUGE 🙂 on their face.

          • Claude 12/22/2015, 10:18 pm:

            May I say also that an objective chiropractor is one WHO chooses to practice the chiropractic objective which is to LACVS for a full expression of the innate forces of the innate intelligence of the body. PERIOD. Nothing more! Nothing less! Nothing else!

  2. Richie Barone 12/17/2015, 7:00 pm:

    Joe do you know if any of the ‘younger’ chiropractic philosophers (Reggie, Sid etc.) ever had any deeper philosophical discussions with BJ?

  3. Claude Lessard 12/19/2015, 11:55 am:

    David,

    I posted that: “Therefore, it follows that EVERYTHING flows from it (universal intelligence)… Above-Down-Inside-Out, leading to the end point of chiropractic which is its objective. EVERYTHING includes existence. It is explained within the major premise in which intelligence maintains e/matter in existence. Without intelligence matter could NOT exist. ABOVE implies intelligence-DOWN implies force-INSIDE implies matter- OUT implies motion. The term “flow’ is used to described a movement that signifies a linear path. Yet, the path is NOT linear, as we know that e/matter is never created nor destroyed. E/matter’s electrons, protons and neutrons are CONTINUALLY (Pri1) re-used to maintain e/matter in existence. For that to occur, e/matter goes through constructive structural formation and deconstructive structural de-formation to its smallest components (pri26), only to be re-used over and over and over and over again in as many creative ways as doable by intelligence. It is further elaborated within principles 8,10,13 and 14. CTOB blogged about this subject a couple years ago. –

    – The choice of words, from BJ, was according to his understanding within the consciousness and knowledge of his time. BJ’s analogies stemmed from his understanding. For example, “Big fellow upstairs, little fellow downstairs”, “Giant versus pygmy”, etc… With today’s information available to us, we have to see through this and realized that BJ’s intent was to described to the lay people the relationship of the metaphysical with the physical. He used terms like immaterial and material. He used anthropomorphism and personified innate intelligence. He so desired to make chiropractic understood by everyone. It was the best BJ could do at his time and it was very good. This is what he left us with and it is up to us to build upon his work and carry on. I am sure, that with today’s information and consciousness, BJ would NOT used these “rock on the hose” examples any longer. Now it is up to us to let go of the “old” analogies that served BJ’s time and use the information of today to invent as many CURRENT analogies as doable (which will probably be discarded (read deconstruction) at a later time when NEW information is known (read construction). 😉 –

    – From what I read within the chiropractic literature of the past 120 years, R.W.Stephenson has organized the many principles found in the first few books of DD and BJ (and perhaps from a couple other sources that were available to him at the time, like maybe Alexis Carrel and Walter Russel). RWS systematized those principles into a basic science that concluded the chiropractic objective. The 33 principles of chiropractic’s basic science would then be applied by chiropractors in order to guide them within their practice of chiropractic. In my opinion, without RWS, in 1927, the 33 principles of chiropractic’s basic science would have remained buried within the many texts of the past… until someone else could do that gigantic and exhaustive work.

  4. David Suskin 12/19/2015, 1:56 pm:

    Wonderful and thank you thank you thank you. (RWS)
    When you say Continually to reference P26(constructive and deconstructive), yes I know that we can extrapolate and suggest, but
    At the point, the tier that P26 has arrived at in the 33, is within the ‘Living/Innate Int realm. You are suggesting, and perhaps quite rightly so that this ‘churning’ if you will, of protons, and electrons, e/matter, etc. happens, is happening, at the rudimentary level of existence, the atom and less. Yes, the suggestion or usage of ‘Life’ in P2, The chiropractic meaning of life, intelligence expressed through matter but referencing LiFE is an interesting one. I have made reference to it, to the degree where I believe in referencing David Koch’s ‘take’ in his CCF book, a fine read, to you, where he pushes P2 up to biological, latter principles, YOU quite strongly spoke of the 33 as He suggested, sits on quick sand, a collapse takes place.
    So the reference to Life in the elemental-early Ps and organic, biological Ps, the later, would suggest this CHURNING of concepts to, yes, be linear, but importantly so Non linear. Meaning that, to me, at least and perhaps to you, as I infer, LIFE, is implicit in the fulfillment of offices and purposes that P1, Intelligence, Maintains.
    Thus your usage of matter re-use, as an Einsteinian concept, exposed by both P5 AND P26.
    We are here today, Living, because the Universe DEMANDS IT, in principle. The RWS Chiropracic Philosophical Principles. Yes/no

  5. Claude Lessard 12/19/2015, 4:20 pm:

    David,

    Your statement: “We are here today, Living, because the Universe DEMANDS IT, in principle. The RWS Chiropractic Philosophical Principles.”, is going beyond the major premise. The 33 principles of chiropractic’s basic science do NOT, in any way, address the reason WHY we are here. What the 33 do address, is the triune of life which is a way to understand HOW e/matter interacts with intelligence and information, WHAT interferes with the information and WHY that does to e/matter what it does, and finally, HOW to address that interference (VS) by practicing the chiropractic objective.

  6. David Suskin 12/19/2015, 5:31 pm:

    I understand, perhaps I should have qualified, based on my POINT,
    concerning P2,P26,Your usage of the P26 with reference to elemental
    Construction and deconstruction,
    And Purpose being an underlying thread in the philosophy, versus randomness (points Joe has made reference to), That:
    The Universe Demands the MAINTAINING of Life and recycling (p2,p26).
    However I do appreciate your specifiing, your specificity to the application of Chiropractic, in its objective as it applies to its philosophy, as conflicts do clarify for me and I know for all of us.
    Thank you Claude for your input to my understanding.
    It helps.

  7. David Suskin 12/19/2015, 5:49 pm:

    Does ISNESS, and the flow of information within the ADIO, triune paradigm imply a flow that has purpose?
    Perhaps the question should be, is it accurate to deduce PURPOSE, as in cause and effect originating in P1, or is That overstepping?

  8. Claude Lessard 12/19/2015, 6:09 pm:

    WHY does it have to have a purpose or meaning? Isness is what it IS! Universal intelligence creates universal information that unites intelligence and e/matter (pri8) giving to e/matter all of its properties and actions, thus maintaining it in existence (pri1). Innate intelligence adapts universal forces and e/matter for use in the body, so that all parts of the body will have coordination of ACTion for mutual benefit (pri23). Innate intelligence is normal and its function is normal. That IS sufficient for any chiropractors WHO choose to practice the chiropractic objective.

  9. David Suskin 12/19/2015, 6:40 pm:

    It doesn’t have to have a purpose. But if purpose exists, then shouldn’t it be acknowledged?
    An innate intelligence that is normal, for all lives, in the face of LOM, and an Educated Intelligence in man, as maintained alive and unique (normal and selfish), would seem to implicate a reason that normal means driven to survive, driven to heal, driven to adapt.
    The philosophy serves more than the CO (reducing subluxation).
    It serves as a means to filter ones educated decisions through. Yes:no.
    We call that ADIO viewpoint.
    And doesn’t a viewpoint dictate a raison d’être.
    Isn’t the CO a consequence of educated intelligence understanding ADIO and doesn’t that pronounce Purpose, Good purpose, to practice a non-therapeutic versus a therapeutic?
    Doesn’t purpose drive mans ability to understand and let go of control, of ego, of educated?
    I know Claude.
    The philosophy, chiropractic requires a bare minimum to do what it needs to do in order to be called the CO.
    But isn’t the maximum something that compels. Without purpose,
    Everything is Mechanistic? Yes/no

    • Claude Lessard 12/19/2015, 7:26 pm:

      The chiropractic objective is about full (maximum) expression of the innate forces of the innate intelligence of the body. PERIOD!!!! There is only speculation after the PERIOD. The chiropractor WHO chooses to practice that objective, does NOT speculate, or make any assessments. Educated intelligence does NOT like that at all. It wants to MIX what is beyond the 33 principles of chiropractic’s basic science and its objective. –

  10. David Suskin 12/19/2015, 9:03 pm:

    Why would P26 be written,
    ’26. Comparison of Universal and Innate Forces – In order to carry on the universal cycle of life, Universal forces are destructive, and Innate forces constructive, as regards structural matter.’
    I order to carry on the universal cycle of life is completely extraneous to
    A CHIROPRACTIC OBJECTIVE.
    If P26 said:
    ‘Universal forces are destructive, and Innate forces constructive, as regards structural matter.’
    That would have sufficed to to lead inevitably to P27, the normality of ii,
    And inevitably to P31, the chiropractic objective (removal of subluxation).
    I would deduce that the statement ‘In order to carry on the universal cycle’ IS a statement of PURPOSE!
    Therefore without condemnation I am suggesting, perhaps wrongly so and correct me, that there is deduction of Purpose as contained within the philosophy, as written, that we even define a Chiropractic Objective, IS a directive of that purpose, the Adjustment-Period, a constructive intelligent action we attempt to supply to a PM, that LACVS Is That Purpose of construction. And that these postings, discussions, attempts to clarify principles contain purpose to communicate our separate and distinct contribution to mankind’s needs.
    They serve to fulfill people’s destination, allowing the fullest expression of ii (Purpose).
    We need to communicate to everyone OUR PURPOSE in a way that will resonate with people, their Purpose, so that there is fulfillment of some valuable purpose we call Chiropractic so that we can arrive at a PERIOD, get out of the car, go inside the house, kick back, and listen to Coltrane, etc. until the next PM needs to be attended to.

  11. Claude Lessard 12/20/2015, 1:23 pm:

    Have you notice that the universal cycle of life occurs with or without “a fall on a snowy sidewalk”, with or without LACVS, with or without OCs, with or without jazz? That is quite humbling is it not? –

    – We are FREE to CHOOSE to practice the chiropractic objective which is: The LACVS for a full expression of the innate forces of the innate intelligence of the body. PERIOD!!! NOTHING LESS, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING ELSE. –

    – Your HUMBLE mentor said it this way: “All (one) can do is to get closer to the sources of nature, and so feel he is in communion with natural laws” John Coltrane 😉

  12. David Suskin 12/20/2015, 4:25 pm:

    Claude,
    You mentioned ISNESS before and I was thinking.
    ‘A Universal Intelligence IS…’
    You described existence as flowing ADIO and I quibbled on this.
    But IS really means exists. Yes/no
    My question is Is there immaterial, metaphysical existence and material, physical existence? I guess in linguistic terms there is.
    P1 makes reference to Universal Intelligence maintaining Matter in
    (Physical-my word) Existence, but the existence of ui, a metaphysical constitution, LAW, is an abstraction that language cannot talk about but point to as a concept of metaphysics that language identifies as an Existing something that does something.
    So in effect existence is flowing ADIO, but specifically is a metaphysical existence and perhaps this would need to be specified?
    Or am I beating a dead horse?
    Point is, I liked the phrase but then thought it was inaccurate but then rethought that it was accurate.
    This perhaps illustrates the quandary that the public is faced with in understanding intangibles.
    Much easier to understand thru OIBU mechanism, physical manipulation, I think at least.
    Maybe I think to much.
    Bottom line?
    ADIO allows for therapeutics within LOM decisions educated intelligence
    Can make, but humbly, guardedly, limitedly, by choice, that might
    be a truth, might be a falsehood.
    Non-therapeutic chiropractic objective P31 correction, is a choice, but is always a fit to truth and reality.
    That is what the philosophy of chiropractic offers mankind.
    Or am I once again going beyond the Period. Yikes! 😉

    • Claude Lessard 12/20/2015, 8:08 pm:

      Yep. Let go and practice the chiropractic objective! In other words, just check spines and be happy with your choice!!! 😉

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *