Q&A.:The Power that Made the Body Heals the Body

33

An old D.E.statement. What do you think about that quote?

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Posted in: Thinking Straight

This article has 33 comments

  1. William Hollensed 11/14/2017, 4:06 am:

    If one was inclined to believe ui and ii were created by a loving, all powerful, and all knowing Creator then one could conclude that they Creator also instilled the power of the body to be self healing.

    • Joe Strauss 11/14/2017, 4:02 pm:

      So the question is why did He “create/instill this power in everyone”? I have an answer but I would like to hear yours as long as it is not a “Calvinistic” one which contradicts both chiropractic philosophy and theology.

      • William Hollensed 11/14/2017, 4:36 pm:

        the power is a byproduct of life, it would be perfectly expressed except sin brought death into the world. We have the power to heal to prolong our physical lives even though death defeats the body eventually. He did this so we would last long enough to first find Him and then glorify Him while here

        • David Suskin 11/15/2017, 9:59 am:

          Let’s think about this logically now. Don’t animals basically have the same diseases that man has? Animals are also subject to death? I observe a similarity going on here. Are animals sinful? What makes man believe that his death is due to sin and an animals death is not? Perhaps we are talking about one that has a soul and one that does not? The body dies, the soul does not, but that’s a speculation isn’t it?
          Is universal intelligence and innate intelligence here to serve mans existence only? Is the world, the universe, The 33 principles, here to serve man’s existence only? These are challenging questions but seem to be an unconscious thrust to pondering the causes of the subject of health sickness disease dis-ease awareness birth in the presence of Adio and Oibu viewpoints.

          • David Suskin 11/15/2017, 4:49 pm:

            and yes, ~”The Power that made the power that Runs the Body Heals the Body”, which lies within and with-out the context of Chiropractic, but is it truly mans plight to depend on his Educated Intelligence so that he, while adhering to a strong OIBU (research) viewpoint, that his existence is bettered, by the development of solutions to the consequences of disease (congenital, development, age related, accident related, genetically related, environmentally related, etc.), murder, starvation, etc. ONLY to cast it aside for a reality, The reality of ADIO, only to accept his condition as sinful, his childrens condition as sinful, his parents condition as sinful, his neighbors condition as sinful only to be Justified by glorifying God while here, whether for 1 second or 120 years.
            Something does NOT seem right.
            We are here because of the world or the world is here because of us?
            OIBU sees it one way, ADIO sees it another way. Where is the truth?

          • Joe Strauss 11/16/2017, 3:50 pm:

            That is a legitimate question, David, one which is answered by an ADIO approach and/or by an OI approach. “We are here because of the world or the world is here because of us?” OR BOTH, in which case we are given a choice. Either choice ends the same way for every person, ths far having lived on this earth the same way, but One. Whether one acts in an ADIO or OI way will be judged by your EDUCATED decision(s) made in this lifetime either by those choices ( and or “luck”/God’s sovereignty depending upon which viewpoint, you have(for 1 second or 120 years). Our free will decisions made in this lifetime,again based upon our overall viewpoint depends upon those private/personal choices. They are either health/chiropractic or theological or both. The former lies “within the context of Chiropractic”,the latter does not, although I believed the Palmers’ incorrectly alluded to the idea that it does.

          • Joe Strauss 11/16/2017, 7:04 pm:

            David ,you wrote “Let’s think about this logically now. Don’t animals basically have the same diseases that man has?” There are a number of reason that animals die. Animals act instinctively and cannot sin, no soul, that separates them from human beings. The reason is a purely theological one and not appropriate for this venue. as are the rest of your comments/questions. They are legitimate questions but outside the realm of chiropractic philosophy, but which DD and BJ touched upon tangentially and probably what caused many chiropractor to reject the Palmer philosophy because it was in conflict with their theology or caused others to attempt to reconcile two separate things, like theology and chiropractic just like they have attempted to reconcile medical practice and chiropractic rather than realizing hey are two different approaches which may be separate and distinct but also valuable and necessary.

  2. Matthew Alvord 11/14/2017, 12:08 pm:

    It’s accurate. It states where healing comes from when it does but it doesn’t say healing is guaranteed. Reggie was over critical of this quote.

    • Joe Strauss 11/14/2017, 3:47 pm:

      Actually Matt, I think that Reggie was rational, reasonable and philosophically correct in his”assessment” of the quote and the DE PEOPLE WERE INACCURATE‘ either buying into BJ’s position that P#24 only existed at Atas/Axis or did not exist at all.

  3. Joe D 11/14/2017, 2:41 pm:

    The power that made the body made the power that heals the body, if we want to be accurate.

    • Joe Strauss 11/14/2017, 3:27 pm:

      I like the way you put that Joe D. I assume that your use of the lower case power means that Principle #1 is a creation of God, separate and distinct from Him just as chiropractic is separate and distinct from medicine, something you have been saying since 1964.

      • Bryan 11/16/2017, 2:40 am:

        Is that to say that ui created the body?

        • Joe Strauss 11/16/2017, 6:01 pm:

          Theologically God creates in two ways: One, by laws some of which are called Principles of which there are probably hundreds . Chiropractic (BJ and RWS adopted/acknowledged 33 of them. They have become what Claude Identifies as the Basic Science of Chiropractic and will be around until and for the perpetuation of mankind until God decides they are no longer needed or can be changed (after all He is the Creator and reserves that right, He can do anything He wants as long as it does not alter any aspect of His character (immutability). When He does alter one of these principles or abrogate it/them, it is called a miracle(something BJ did not consider, probably because He considered ui and God to be synonymous. Still talking theologically, He created life forms and the principle of ii on the 3rd day of creation …BUT…gave human beings a miraculous soul and the unique ability to procreate the body and soul, not given to any other living thing P#s 20,21. Your question incorrectly assumes that ui and God as synonymous So the body is created (mediateyl) by chiropractic principles AND (immediately) by amiraculous supernatural act of God

          • David Suskin 11/16/2017, 7:51 pm:

            Joe,
            1st, thank you for your reply.
            OK how about putting it this way,
            As you stated “…attempted to reconcile medical practice and chiropractic rather than realizing they are two different approaches which may be separate and distinct but also valuable and necessary.”
            Valuable and necessary, sure!
            But it would appear that within the chiropractic/medical concepts – Viewpoints ADIO and OIBU are majorly pitted against each other. I’ve read books and books claiming TRUTH for one (adio) and well, let’s say not -truth for the other (oibu). I know we’ve spoken about (eg. the operation was a success but the patient died, etc. aspect to medicine, etc.)
            Yes, I believe I understand the nature of a deductive premise, where logic bears 100% truth as long as the logical arguments are correct, where as empiricism (as used within fact finding and inductive theory) yields relative, pragmatic, “not the complete picture” facts. Pieces to a puzzle, where what appears to be fact one day may indeed collapse with more information.
            Viewpoint sets the stage for a big picture and a little picture.
            It’s a thread that runs through ‘Getting Big Ideas’ and Not.
            We tend to use Facts as a means to understand and to control, versus using logic alone to understand ‘The Big Picture’.
            I know I’m not making myself clear here, but I’m trying.
            Using ADIO as ones Viewpoint and filling in the cracks of day to day with empirical solutions versus using an OIBU viewpoint, collecting facts and mechanisms to guide ones life, filling in the cracks with various deductive solutions, oh it’s a quagmire.
            Everyone needs a “something” bigger than themselves to live within. If you have religious belief, that fills that void. If you don’t, then you might use Chiropractic (BJ), or Science (Hawking, Sagan, etc.), or Philosophy(Satre,Descarte,etc.).
            The di-psycho you speak of is that sitting on the fence where one does not exist in Reality. It’s an inconsistency, a schism, where ADIO and OIBU collide.
            It’s where I live. Conflicts clarify. That’s my reason for pushing this subject. and perhaps I can inspire some discussion.
            Question: Since ii is a part of and a part from ui, isn’t educated intelligence a part of and a part from ui, being that ui is the MP to all matter existence?

    • William Hollensed 11/14/2017, 4:37 pm:

      well said

      • Claude 11/18/2017, 1:06 pm:

        David,

        You asked: “Since ii is part of and part from ui, isn’t it educated intelligence a part from ui, being that ui is the MP to all matter in existence?” –

        – First of all ui is the LAW of organization, the LAW of maintaining e/matter in existence. ii is the LAW of ACTIVE organization, the LAW of maintaining living e/matter alive. These two laws are immutable and ALWAYS 100% (pri5 and 8). –

        – Educated on the other hand is the capability of the educated brain to function. The educated brain is a tangible part of the physical brain and educated intelligence is its capability to function. This capability of the educated brain to function varies from person to person, varies over time and can be interfered by incoordination of DIS-EASE. Educated is a function of e/matter as any other function of e/matter. –

        – I hope it clarifies.

  4. David Suskin 11/18/2017, 1:45 pm:

    and Mental in “mental impulse” is a function of? (note, this is an inquiry into the origin and usage of the word Mental, within this context)

    • Claude Lessard 11/18/2017, 5:36 pm:

      David,

      You asked: and Mental in “mental impulse” is a function of?

      The answer is found in principle 23.

      By the way, we’ve blogged these questions and answers so many time in the last five years. These principles are immutable. They don’t change. What’s going on?

      • David Suskin 11/18/2017, 5:59 pm:

        Mental Claude! MENTAL!
        Mental means The Mind! The origin of the word Intelligence, within Educated Intelligence. Don’t you see? We address universal intelligence Law, innate intelligence Law, educated intelligence Capacity. You’re telling me that the word mental impulse does not come from our usage of the word Mental as in the mind/educated intelligence. Yes I understand educated intelligences capacity but we make a division between universal intelligence which is of the major premise and innate intelligence which comes from universal intelligence and then we discuss educated intelligence as though if it’s not the metaphysical then it’s the physical educated intelligence but there’s more there’s the mind. The mental impulse mental. You Can’t have it both ways

        • Claude Lessard 11/18/2017, 9:55 pm:

          David,

          I think you should re-read all previous post regarding educated intelligence and educated mind. –

          – Be it as it may, here it is one more time!-

          – This is not a psychology or a theology blog. It’s a chiropractic blog. –

          – The term MIND in chiropractic means the ACTIVITY that is happening in the innate or educated brain. In this thread, it is the educated brain. Understanding that the educated brain is the actual physical brain CELLS to function, MIND is the functioning of the educated brain. That activity gives rise to “thought.” –

          – In the innate brain that thought manifests itself as a mental impulse which is disseminated through the nerve system to coordinate the living activities of the parts of the body (pri23). –

          – In the educated brain it is the same thing. It is a mental impulse that is “tinctured” for so called voluntary functions. All of the organs of the body, be it heart, spleen, intestines or the educated physical brain, cannot function without mental impulses from innate intelligence through the innate brain. –

          – So metaphysical universal intelligence creates metaphysical universal information maintaining e/matter in existence (pri1), Metaphysical innate intelligence adapts metaphysical universal information AND physical e/matter for use in the body (pri23) creating MENTAL (metaphysical) IMPULSE (physical). Mental impulses can be tinctured into educated thoughts for so called voluntary functions from educated mind which is the ACTIVITY of the educated brain. –

          • David Suskin 11/19/2017, 12:14 am:

            Thanks C. I re-read all the time. A fresh Claude Lessard re-compilation is always welcomed as a means to focus on my question (my LOM 🙂 ). I’m out dining right now, but I will read though and digest.
            Every re-read for me is a chance to learn based on what I now know.
            Practice makes perfect.
            Thanks Claude. Means a lot to me

  5. David Suskin 11/18/2017, 2:36 pm:

    and as stated “Educated is a function of e/matter as any other function of e/matter”, Intelligence is?

    • Claude Lessard 11/18/2017, 5:26 pm:

      The educated brain of a newborn baby has very little capability to function which means that it has very little educated intelligence. The newborn CANNOT care for its needs. Do you get that educated intelligence is the capability of the educated brain to function?

  6. Claude Lessard 11/19/2017, 12:56 am:

    Our beloved Dr. Steve Jones (RIP) is probably chuckling right now. 🙂

    • David Suskin 11/19/2017, 9:43 am:

      He is beloved 😉
      A few things.
      And don’t get um, frustrated? Or angry with moi.
      Back to this. Again! When you say “All of the organs of the body, be it heart, spleen, intestines or the educated physical brain, cannot function without mental impulses from innate intelligence through the innate brain.”
      Empirically checked, with lets say, a kidney transplant. Nerves are cut, yes there is Adaptation (has to be) and mechanical OI controllers (drugs), But there IS function. There is pretty abundant survival.
      What gives with that? Maybe The Autonomic NS is the mechanical anatomical, so far, OI, understanding. The chiropractic, 33P understand understanding suggests More. Somehow, someway, But How? Your thoughts?
      2nd. If for arguments sake you Removed the Tincture from EI Mental Impulse, what would you have? A perfect thought? A perfect Mind?
      Maybe THAT. Is The Who you speak abought.

      • Claude Lessard 11/19/2017, 1:48 pm:

        David,

        Hint: 😉

        Innate intelligence of the cell. Innate intelligence of the tissue. Innate intelligence of the organ. Innate intelligence of the system. Innate intelligence of the body.

  7. Claude Lessard 11/19/2017, 2:13 pm:

    Without tincture from educated intelligence the mental impulse is ONLY innate information for use in the body, so that all parts of the body will have coordinated action for mutual benefit (pri23).

  8. David Suskin 11/19/2017, 3:54 pm:

    What does tincture consist of?
    Isn’t there a direct relationship, philosophically, between the Triune P5 and the Mind – tinctured forces of ii (mental impulses), a production of thoughts within educated brain, rooted in Awareness, some would cell The thinker, The watcher, the observer.
    What might be called, The Who, The soul.
    I look for a structural continuity from ui (which as a Law of Organization , an implication of purpose and direction to All that is maintained in existence. To the existence of mans consciousness and free will.
    Philosophy has far reaching implications that we can still call the realm of Chiropractic. But that is up for debate.

    • Joe Strauss 11/20/2017, 7:19 pm:

      I would debate that!! I would suggest that you re-read Claude’s Blue Book. You, and everyone who has yet to read it. I think principles are either based upon or extensions of the previous principle. P# 5, is an extension of P# 5F you consider the MP pantheistic which I believe BJ and his writings do but most TSCors and their writings do not consider it pantheistic but consider it theistic (making it a religious/theistic concept and as Claude has said, not chiropractic philosophy.

      • David Suskin 11/20/2017, 9:09 pm:

        Are you saying that my statement alludes to pantheism?

        • David Suskin 11/20/2017, 9:29 pm:

          Within the guidelines of this forum being a chiropractic forum, i do limit my discussion, if need be to that. (as per Claude and your suggestion). Just to clarify, when I said “Isn’t there a direct relationship, philosophically, between the Triune P5 and the Mind”, I really meant Couldn’t there be a direct relationship, philosophically, between the Triune P5 and the Mind… but I will go no further then that if suggested without condemnation.
          Pantheism/theism was the subject you, Joe just brought up. And yes I know that BJ himself has referenced theistic subjects within his MP proclamations, etc. By I will let you lead. Chiropractic as you stated, can be limited to What clarifies the Chiropractic Objective, and that it is all. However we do discuss ADIO subjects, etc. I think that ADIO and it’s viewpoint does create this “fuzzy” area that straddles into other domains.

  9. Claude 11/19/2017, 7:14 pm:

    Chiropractic philosophy is not a study of psychology any more than it is a study of physics or chemistry. Chiropractic uses some concepts of psychology, physics and chemistry as long as it is consistent with chiropractic. Remember that chiropractic is SEPARATE and DISTINCT. In other words, there is a Chiropractic psychology, which is the study of the mind. –

    – In Chiropractic, mind is the activity of innate intelligence in the educated brain as an organ. The result of this activity is educated thoughts (reasoning, memory, will and so on…). –

    – Tincture consists of education, reasoning, memory, will, knowledge, wisdom and instinct. The educated mind is bound by preference, habit, instinct, environment and limitation of e/matter. There are unlimited possibilities and potentialities influencing educated thoughts which are very rarely original anyway.

    • Joe Strauss 11/20/2017, 6:25 pm:

      Claude,”Chiropractic philosophy is not a study of psychology any more than it is a study of physics or chemistry.” True, unfortunately most people confuse chiropractic principles with philosophy/psychology rather than a support/basis for the chiropractic objective.

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